Nobody knows how it will impact future performance. All that we know is the past and the present, and the present is never static. What's done is done.
If I saw a 6'9" woman dressed like that, I don't know if I'd run away in fear or spring a boner. Or both... It's like a gigantic flamingo, yet it talks.
That's funny, No wonder why she didn't look like a dwarf compared to him Your Right. It's pretty hard to meet Unrealistic expectations that are out of touch with Reality. Personally, all I want from Greg is a Beast on D, an Anchor. And for him to be his fun loving self off the court. Dude is young, the rest will come. I know Cho is a long term thinker, so I expect him to do what it takes to retain G.O.
Are you going to answer my question? Why is his present behavior relevant? Other, of course, than in how it will impact future performance? Ed O.
Because it shows where he at right now. How it impacts his future, I have no idea. I can only comment on what has been done, and what's done is done, so there is no use analyzing it, since I can't accurately predict his future behavior. If I did try to predict it, it would be from a position of ignorance, as would any disagreement with said position. In summary, we'd just be posting for the single reason of arguing the specifics of an unknown future. Doesn't seem that much fun to me, and since the past doesn't matter to you, because it's done, I'd say our exchange in this thread has run its course.
I think you're being inconsistent and/or illogical, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. You want to know Oden's present... why? Because it will impact his future? Or just because you want to judge him as a person and who he is now? Or some other reason? If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. You repeating yourself as an evasion is tiresome. Ed O.
So, you honestly have zero interest in how we all got to this point? I don't care about Oden's personal life, doubly so since I believe he has no NBA future to worry about. I am, however, very curious as to how the "best center in a generation" turned out to be a horrible flop. I may disagree with PapaG's theory, but I understand his curiosity. Since we can't unwreck the train, what's wrong with asking why it wrecked?
He has had knee injuries. I'm not curious how or why. That just happens. It always has happened with players and it always will. Given that this whole thread has his alcohol consumption as an underpinning, though, it's not merely a conversation about "what went wrong?" but, seemingly, "how did Oden fuck up his basketball career?" ... which prompts me to wonder why--even if we all have total, perfect knowledge--that matters unless it's going to influence his future as a basketball player. Ed O.
I see we're back to Ed O., circa 2008 1) Sets the parameters of the conversation to his template/agenda. "What's done is done", in this instance. 2) Gets an answer he doesn't like, mostly because the poster doesn't agree with the parameters as being relevant. 3) Narrows question to yes/no, not thinking that the question is meaningless to the person he is addressing. 4) Poster doesn't want to answer red herring question, explains self in lengthy post. 5) Ed O. can't accept this answer, must have poster see the topic as he sees it; asks "why won't you answer my question" even after poster walks away because the question must be answered as Ed O. wants it answered. 6) Noting lack of reply after waiting an appropriate period time, then proceeds to ask why poster is being inconsistent/illogical, when in reality poster just isn't interested in arguing a topic with no answer. If you find this "evasion" tiresome, Ed, I'll add that I found the entire schtick listed above tiresome, and am sad to see you're putting it back into practice. I look forward to debating why the past doesn't matter, and how the future is uncertain, many times in the future. Or maybe not. Hard to say, depends on if you go back to your old habits, or if you try to change things.
FWIW Ben Roethlisberger -- BOOZING at Texas Piano Bar Ben Roethlisberger is paying extra special attention to his diet this week -- because when he was pounding drinks at a Texas bar Tuesday night ... he wanted his rum mixed with DIET COKE. TMZ has obtained FOOTAGE of the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback hanging out at Pete's Dueling Piano Bar in Fort Worth Texas ... where he sang his face off from 11:00 PM until 1:15 AM the next morning. Sources inside the bar tell us Big Ben arrived with two massive teammates -- and bought several rounds of drinks for himself AND the entire bar. We're told Ben racked up an $800 tab -- and tipped an additional $200. People inside the bar tell us Ben was "nice, fun and took care of everyone." http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/03/ben-r...s-fort-worth-video-footage-green-bay-packers/ So is this bad because it's right before the Super Bowl or really cool because he bought everyone drinks and sang to them?
Going back, my point on prognosticating was that, given what we know and making guesses about what we think we do, and I had to pick one of them, I'd pick Greg and his potential boozing ways and supposed injury-prone-ness over the next 5 years than Roy's lifestyle and former All-Star greatness. Because I'm prognosticating that having some drinks at a club doesn't make you more injury prone than not having meniscus in both knees does. Or having cheeseburgers at midnight instead of chicken caesar salad or a kashi bar. I think that over the rest of their careers, Oden plays more games and makes more All-star teams than Roy will, regardless of whatever you or I think about his drinking and regardless of whether or not people calling him a dick b/c of his club behavior towards fans is justified. And so, imho, speculation about this aspect of his lifestyle is fine if you want to make him your son's role model or not, but has very little to do with what happens on the court. Did his drinking cause Corey Maggette's brace-covered knee to crash into him? Or Bynum's 300#'s to land on his foot? Or his being a dick to people cause him to lift so much that his muscles could snap his unhealed kneecap in half? Then why are we bringing it up as a root cause of his being a bust or not?
I agree that Oden acting his age and having fun is a red herring. I still disagree with your conclusion. I'm betting Roy's pride and determination get him back into uniform - even if it isn't until after the lock-out.
One theme that keeps hitting a brick wall in this thread is the irreconcilable difference between those who believe that "bad things just happen, they are utterly random, and there is nothing anybody can do about it", vs those who believe that all inputs can have some (maybe a very little, maybe a whole lot) impact on the damage that occurs during an incident and the success of healing and rehab that follows. Put me in the second group. Normally, I have little concern with others' private lifestyles. As was said before, why shouldn't a young millionaire live it up if that is what floats their boat. I am not a terribly judgemental type. It does not personally offend if Oden had promiscious sex with lots of women/men/sheep; consumed mountains of junk food; drank himself silly; even took recreational drugs. (Not saying he did any of those things). I would prefer if he didn't, as I know that would reduce his chance at the best and longest career, but some folks are the "work hard/party hard" types (ie Charles Barkely) that seem to need that in their lives. There have been successful partiers in sports. Many of them. Unfortunately, Oden is not one of those. The more recent medical science shows that there are connections between people's health and: the quality of their sleep; the quality of food they consume; nutritional deficiencies; alcohol abuse (of which binge drinking qualifies); and attitude. And all of this stuff is interrelated: Alcohol consumed near bedtime impares sleep quality; clubbing only compounds the problem; poor sleep affects injury repair; poor sleep affects attitude; alcohol quickly depletes stores of essential nutrients; eating a poor diet fails to replenish; poor attitude leads drinkers to drink more; alcohol is a depressant which causes those inclined to feel down; the mind-body connection dictates that those that are depressed or filled with anxiety heal more slowly and have worse health outcomes. And it goes around in circles. In short, some people can handle a hedonistic lifestyle and most can't. Those that can't need to turn their life around. Making baby step adjustments sometimes isn't enough to break the cycle that will pull you back to your lower levels. The kind of thing Bill Walton was alluding to. There are hints from years of exposure around this public figure that he MAY at times have abused alcohol, comsumed a poor diet and displayed a poor (depressed, lack of enthusiam) attitude. Because he has failed the team I follow I am bothered that it may be his choices and his attitude may have played a part in that failure. Just win baby and I don't care. Lose, and now I wan't to know why. I think his genetics, then bad luck, then the medical/rehab/training staff are the larger forces in the tragedy that is Greg Oden the baskeball player. That does not mean I don't think his lifestyle and attitude are not contributors and his choice to live that way hurt his chances for faster and more complete recovery to the injuries. I hope somebody in his life is able to convince him of the general truism that if you treat your body like shit, it will (in his case continue) to turn the favor.
No, I don't think that people are suggesting that everything is random and is unavoidable. My view is looking at the most likely causes of Oden's injury history. If given a list of reasons why Oden has had recurring issues you might come up with a list such as: 1) Had previous injury history before coming to the NBA. 2) Big men in the NBA seem to have a history of injury problems(e.g. Bill Walton, Sam Bowie, Yao Ming). 3) The NBA puts more stress and strain on a players body than anything a player may have experienced before in their career. Seems pretty sound & logical. I am not sure where on that list "Cheeseburgers" and "Alcohol" fit, they don't really. Because it's pretty asinine to say that that his knees keep breaking because he ate cheeseburgers and drank alcohol. Additional you really have very little proof he has a drinking problem or is eating unhealthily. The best you have as proof is articles stating that he never planned to quit drinking, didn't think he had a problem & that he has improved his diet. That doesn't mean that his diet was disastrous to begin with or that he had a drinking problem. On top of that, it sounds like he has tried to answer to the critics by taking into account peoples perception of his drinking & his diet and made choices to change things around, again as far back as 2009 he's stated he's improved his diet & is focused on coming back. Guess what happened? His knee still broke, again. Now the major problem is when people start posting crap like what the OP said which is basically "Didn't Oden say he'd stop drinking?"(no he didn't), "isn't that all he did during his last rehab?"(no fucking way). Seriously, Oden drank his way through rehab and that's why his knee broke? What proof do you have that's all Oden did during his rehab? Could lifestyle choices play a factor in rehabilitation? Yes they can. Even if Oden did have major lifestyle issues it sounds like he addressed them during this last rehab cycle & it still failed. It's just dumb when people decide it's a good idea to shit on him and make up negative crap they really have no clue about. When did Oden binge drink? There's also studies that suggest moderate alcohol use can improve health. There are also people who are geared to a-typical sleep patterns. Many athletes imbibe sports drinks which are actually pretty unhealthy(corn syrup, salts & colorings). What is unhealthy for normal people, may not necessarily be unhealthy for an athlete. I've personally dealt with a body that likes to break itself & it's extremely frustrating when your body fails you & when people around you suggest it's your fault, "you must be doing something wrong". B-fucking-S. The body is complex & modern medicine can only go so far. You have a higher likelihood of your knee cap busting due to a degenerative disorder than you do because you ate a fucking cheeseburgers or drank some beer. Also just because you're out at a club doesn't mean you have a drinking problem or drank your way through rehab... I have no idea why that is so hard to understand? You may want to know why, that doesn't mean you actually know why. It can end at "if he has an alcohol problem or an eating issue, I hope he addresses those", rather than "Oden has a drinking problem & drank his way through rehab, he reinjured his knee because he ate too much late night fast food and went clubbing too often". What people often fall back on is these absolutes, that "Oden said it" or it's "well known", as I've pointed out throughout the thread there is really very poor evidence that any of that is actually true. This also points out that Oden could probably be a drug addict who ate 12 cheeseburgers nightly, just so long as he produced no one would really give a shit or "be concerned" all of a sudden. Again you are assuming that he is treating his body like shit. You know those kids with childhood cancer? Did they treat their bodies like shit? Was it their parents fault? Brandon Roy, how do you know he's not a drunk or drug addict or eats shit food? His knees keep failing on him. Because he says so? As others have pointed out, those with drinking problems rarely admit it. I guess we can assume Roy is treating his body like shit, drank himself through rehab & smoked dope(remember that pot-friendly music video!!!???) over the last couple of months, right? We have such hard evidence of that fact. Or is it more likely that Roy has a degenerative knee disorder that eats away at the cartilage and meniscus in his knee? If you can believe that, why is it so hard to believe that Oden could have a similar issue?
This thread is at a new low. LOL Now Oden is being compared to kids with cancer. Greg Oden, the martyr. That's a new one. Congrats. Nobody knows that, although he isn't seen at various clubs, and never mentioned cutting back on alcohol to the media. That said, even if he is a drug addict or an alcoholic, he still managed to make 3 All-Star teams and 2 All-NBA teams. So, he's up on Oden there... Or, it could be assumed that because Roy took care of himself, even after knee injuries in college, that he was able to be productive for 4 years. By your measure, one could assume that if Roy drank and ate poorly, as Oden may have done, he'd be considered a bust? It's not so hard. Many of us have been posting that Oden is injury-prone for years. The common Oden Apologist answer has been that none of the injuries are related, they are freak injuries, and it's all just bad luck or bad medical/training staff mistakes. As I said earlier, learning a little board history before jumping all over long-time posters, who have established opinions on Oden, would be prudent. As it is, you just seem to be an upset and rather angry n00b. Welcome to S2!
I'll also point out, since Roy seems to be the comparison to Oden at this point, that Roy has never had a problem with carrying too much weight. Perhaps it's his alleged drug addiction that kept the weight off (first I've heard of it, but maybe Klinky has a source), but after his rookie year, Roy made it a point to gain more mass, so I find it difficult to question his eating habits. Mass has never been a problem with Oden, and there is a video from Oden himself in this thread of him buying a bunch of processed and unhealthy foods at a grocery store. Plus, Oden himself stated he was cutting back on fast food in his interview with Quick. He said he needed to make changes, and mentioned alcohol and eating at the two changes he needed to make. He was being honest about these things with himself, yet people here still try to pretend that it never happened.
Roy: neither overweight not a heavy drinker. Fantastic. Oden: at times overweight (for a basketball player) and an allegedly heavy drinker. And yet they're both severely damaged. I think that it's hard to blame Oden's injuries on his lifestyle. He could quite easily have lived the same lifestyle as Roy and been in just the same predicament. Ed O.
