That's way off. While the US started the rock/pop era, the Beatles, Rolling Stones and Who had massive worldwide influence in the 1960s. The only US band of the time that wasn't completely washed away by that tide, in terms of influence, was the Beach Boys. The British created and popularized heavy metal with Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. The UK created glam rock in the '70s (Bowie, Roxie Music, T.Rex, etc). The UK punk scene (Clash, Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, etc) was the seminal scene of the late-70s and turned into the new wave movement that dominated the early 1980s. That UK punk scene, while not the first instances of punk, is still what pretty much everyone thinks of when they think of punk roots. And punk is a massive part of rock/pop. Grunge was certainly a major movement in the 1990s, but the UK had their own acid house scene at the same time that pushed dance beats into the pop mainstream. The Beatles didn't have to come to the US to get beyond their early music style. The two were completely unrelated. The Beatles changed musically as they got older (and it's pretty arguable, IMO, whether they ever made a better song or a more impactful song than "She Loves You"). The US has a great pop history (and there are some forgotten bands, by the mainstream, that had massive influence on music, like Velvet Underground, Big Star and the Pixies), but I don't think it's remotely true that all the worldwide impact on musical direction came from the US.
Right. Swing, Jazz, Rock, Blues, Soul, etc. all started in London as well. It's interesting to see the perspective from an English person. History didn't start with Led Zeppelin. LOL As for glam rock, I don't really consider that ground-breaking; it was basically just an offshoot of an existing genre. I'd credit Portland's own The Kingsmen, for example, of being more influential to rock as a genre than David Bowie.
I never said everything came from the UK. But a strawman is generally a useful way to deflect being wrong about something. I'm American, actually. Born in the US and lived almost my entire life in the US. And I've lived zero part of my life in the UK, outside of a one week visit to England. LOL. How true. Everything in rock and pop can be called an "offshoot of an existing genre." That's not a very compelling argument. Glam had a lot of influence on metal that came after it in addition to the punk scene that flourished in the late '70s.
to be fair, alot of the beatles early songs were written by americans, but they killed it after they started writing their own stuff.
Do you mean their R&B covers? They did do a lot of those and I thought those were drags on their albums. They didn't bring anything new to them. But I think the early songs that they wrote were strong.
yeah im not a fan either, but songs like american writen songs comprised more than half of their early albums. take for instance the "please please me" album, some great songs they wrote like "love me do" but about half of those songs are american.
Nirvana was great - and Nevermind is one of the greatest albums of all time imho - but the UK had their own version of "Grunge" before Seattle in offshoots of Alternative rock - groups like the Jesus and Mary Chain smelled like Nirvana before Nirvana made songs that allowed Weird Al to do "Smells like Nirvana".
Yeah, you might want to read the entire thread. We're already on influences. I'll add my belief that Butch Vig took a band with two great musicians (Grohl and Cobain) and made them the biggest band in the world for a short time because of his production. Without Vig, Nirvana would be just another Pixies rip-off, and as someone who owns the entire Nirvana collection, including bootlegs and demos, it's not easy for me to say this. I enjoy the garage days of Nirvana, but after getting together with Vig, Grohl and Cobain reached heights they couldn't have before. Unlike his work with Smashing Pumpkins, where he took an average band with a decent songwriter and made them stars, Vig and Nirvana did change music on a larger scale. Of course, I'm also a big Linkin Park fan, and think that they took what Nirvana was doing and made it different, but not necessarily better, so my judgement may called into question.
Absolutely. The Jesus & Mary Chain, Sonic Youth and Mudhoney never get the credit they deserve. Even Teenage Fanclub, who later became completely associated with power pop, started off as proto-grunge. I'll second that Nevermind is one of the greatest albums of all-time. And I think Cobain's unplugged album is an underappreciated marvel.
This a very good discussion, I hope you don't mind my two cents. Its nice that both of you can point to one side of the pond or the other, and show influence of this band or that. The best thing about Nirvana was that they were almost a saving grace for old rock and rollers like myself. There were more informed guys at the time, younger than I more attuned to the current scene, but for the main stream to embrace a style familiar to guys my age and drag us back to the fold, well priceless. I was to turned off by what was going on before these guys, i flat out would ignore top 40/pop rock...detested rap etc an tended to listen to "my stuff" or nothing. Now I can say that I have continued to keep up with music to this day and find something I enjoy, because of this.
I love discussing music, especially when it's not a "That band sucks, the band(s) I like are much better" type of discussion. On a side note, it's funny that this thread is about music, because when I first saw the title, I began hearing "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" in my head. Not the correct number of years to match the lyric, but it still reminded me.
I am interested in your take on the hair bands of the 1980s that defined 'rock' music during that period. As a person in junior high, and later starting college during the Nirvana/AIC/Pearl Jam/etc. years, I loathed bands like Warrant, Winger, Poison, Mr. Big, and any other "butt rock" (as my friends and I called it) band. A few exceptions for me are Motley Crue and Ratt. I also credit Guns and Roses, Iron Maiden, and Metallica for keeping rock alive during that period, and I suppose Ozzy too, until he sold out with Lita Ford in a duet. In other words, how did you make it through those days? I have a very diverse taste in music, and listen to music instead of watching TV, but by the time songs like "Wild Wild West" (the Escape Club version, not the Kool Moe Dee version) were considered rock, I had long checked out of that scene, and entered rap, along with old favorites like New Order and Depeche Mode (both back to the mid-80s for me). Then, while living in San Francisco for a bit during the mid-90s, I discovered dance-electronica music, and while I wasn't in the lifestyle for long (I had to work), I still listen to it while I'm working. The only music I can't listen to is country, unless it's Willie Nelson, Hank Jr., or Waylon Jennings and similar older acts.
Imagine me having an Obama statement to the Ivory Coast in the original post in place of the Nirvana video. Very prog of me.
Grunge, an insignificant blip on the radar of musical evolution, was "invented" by following these simple rules. Use only 2 chords, the same 2 chords in every song, rather than risk creating something unique which may be too complex for fans. Lyrics must be depressing, forlorn, or suicidal. Attaining musical competence on an instrument must be avoided at all costs. Sound man must be a friend, relative, or drug supplier of the band, preferably tone deaf. As for the talented Kurt Cobain, nearly all heroin junkies kill themselves one way or another.
Interesting question. I was born in 60, my dad turned me on to music like Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino etc. I was influenced by an older cousin who was 6 years older than I and turned me on to first folk (Dylan) pop like Beatles and then the darker side like Rolling Stones, playing guitar and smoking things other than tobacco. ( all of these led to the attraction of the opposite sex) By the 80s I was doing the bar scene pretty heavy and put up with the big hair bands, but found that my personal haven was to discover or in some ways to rediscover some of the older stuff I had missed the first time around and holding on to 70s bands, Lynard Skynard, Doors Frank Zappa and the Mothers, Jimi, Janet, Traffic, Little Feet etc. For the most part the hair band stuff was what my younger brothers listened to and I shunned it out side of a bar. Late 80s rap almost killed me, hell even the stones were doing Miss You...Bowie was too cute..Phil Collins was selling out..very dark times. Oh, and yeah, lots of beer, Traveling Willberrys(?)sp and Hank JR did help.
If web forums existed in the 1970s, this would have pretty much mirrored complaints about punk rock. Coincidentally or not, I consider Nirvana the best punk band of the 1990s. Certainly they were part of the grunge movement, but I don't think that disqualifies them from being punk also. Genres overlap plenty.
That's how I feel, too. I don't consider what is labeled "country" today to really be country in any meaningful way. It's twang-pop rather than the form of folk music that it was, IMO, when Cash or Nelson did it. Today, the only real difference I can discern between country and mainstream pop-rock is a Southern accent and occasionally the subject matter.
I can't believe that I forgot to include Johnny Cash. What an oversight. Hell, we even listened to Cash extensively during the "grunge" days. I have to include the Eagles and the Doors as bands that I "discovered" in college.
Interesting conversation guys, what about Jane's Addiction? I saw them in concert twice. Early Red Hot Chili Peppers? Also Papa G what did you think of Public Enemy? I remember the first time I heard Fear of a Black Planet. It was mind blowing.
