Can't take 4 more years of Obama abuse and empty promises

In December 2008 we were what, exactly?

 

You're halfway right. A soldier who lies and breaks his oath and conditions of employment lacks integrity, and he amnestied that. Fair enough.

 

You mean, officially obeying the laws of the land, as instituted by President Clinton and Chairman Powell and a Democratic, introduced by a Democratic House and approved by a Democratic Senate?

I choose to look at history, and see that the President was able to "pull all the troops home" from Iraq b/c the Surge of 2007 that just about everyone and their brother (including the President) was against and said wouldn't work, worked. That's what soldier, sailors, airmen and Marines did, and the vast majority of them did it with integrity.

 

Yes. Your marriage means less to me than the debt the nation incurred (and inability to get a budget passed), the way PPACA was passed and the inability of ObamaCare to actually make care affordable, and the way my life will be affected by past and future choices for national security. But those weren't anywhere in your list. We each get a vote, and if that's what you're voting for, that's your right.

Your sexual choices belong to you and your consensual partner, not to the federal government, imho.

 

So we're able to just say, "Eff You, Mr. Commander-in-Chief...we think that's a bad law, so we're not following it?" THAT makes us homophobes with no integrity?

 

Thanks for your service, Brian, but...

I don't care if a guy is gay or not. If he's big and tough and can kick the enemy's ass and break things, that seems good enough for me. That's what the military is supposed to do - kick the enemy's ass and break things.

You are right that there were a lot of men and women who lied about their orientation. They lied because they wanted to serve, like you. They gained no other personal benefit from the lies. It's just downright silly the rules were so egregiously wrong that it put these good men and women in a spot they would have to lie just to serve.

Nothing personal.

 

No offense taken.

"It's just downright silly the rules were so egregiously wrong that it put these good men and women in a spot they would have to lie just to serve."

Whether I agree or not, which rules do you want the military to ignore, and which ones to obey? Should the military have said "Eff no, we're not leaving Iraq, are you stupid?" And just kept people there until Congress put through a budget stripping away funding? Should they have said "I don't care about 'collateral damage', I'm getting bin Laden in 1998, President Clinton?" Should they have just said, upon the repeal of DADTDP, "that's stupid, we're not following that?" Should they say "rape of an enemy's women has been a given throughout history, why the hell can't we rape and plunder?" Or "You're an idiot for suggesting that a prisoner of war gets a trial in NYC, Mr. Holder...not only will we summarily execute the prisoner according to military tribunal, but we're going to arrest you in your house and see how you like it?"

You either get civilian control of the military or you don't. We follow the rules your presidents and representatives make, no matter how stupid or great.

As for "lying", the only reason they possibly would've had to lie is because they were engaging in illegal activity. "Being gay" wasn't against the rules. And no one was able to pursue whether someone was engaging in that illegal activity. You know what else was illegal, and could get you kicked out? What you would call "interoffice dating." Or consensual sex between the assistant manager of one McDonald's and the fry cook at a Burger King across the street. Or bouncing a check. Or being overweight.

There were (and are) rules you have to follow to be in the military, and not engaging in homosexual activity (or "coming out") was one. The fat kid doesn't get to eat all he wants and stay in just b/c he wants to serve. The single dad who doesn't have relatives to leave his kids with on deployment doesn't get to stay in just b/c he wants to serve. The officer who impregnates someone who isn't an officer doesn't get to stay in just because he wants to serve.

I don't expect anyone to "get it", and it's a moot point anyway....but when is someone going to say that it's stupid that a doctor can't continue being a Navy doctor just because he's 5'11, 210? Or that a nuclear-trained electrician with 6 years gets kicked out b/c he can't run 1.5miles in 13 minutes? They also "get no additional benefit other than to serve." What about the Navy SEAL who gets kicked out b/c he got LASIK? Or the guy with 25 years experience getting fired for having an affair?