It does to Jesus/God, yes. Unfortunately, many are gonna miss Heaven by around 16" or so........the distance between their head....and their heart.
Sorry dog, I'm on your side but I couldn't help it: 'Man of Steel' director Zack Snyder on Superman's Christ-like parallels'
Point out the parts that come from the Bible, or are inspired by the Bible. http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html If we'd used the Bible for inspiration, we'd never have rebelled against England because the Bible says that all authority comes from God.
I'm thinking about writing an 11th commandment about not molesting children. I can't believe dad missed that one.
I think it most certainly does matter if you believe in Jesus. Because that little stumbling point is why they think no matter how good I am in life, I go to hell. It sets up the us verses them. And it is also the linchpin to believing in something that says doctrin is more important than reason or knowledge. And that is what scares me when I think about us growing into a better tomorrow.
Try the Declaration of Independence for inspiration, Specifically this line, "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men," Then you see the Constitution being drawn up to make it so.
Let me put it this way, If you live your life in the spirt of the Christian philosophy, you will never see hell in this life. Many that reject that idea are not so fortunate. Having never met the man Jesus, none that live now can do better.
While I've been reading this thread, I don't tend to participate in these discussions because they generally don't accomplish much. I've said before in many threads that I'm a Christian. To me, the answer to the title of this thread is that I consider Jesus to be my Lord and savior. I do appreciate that you seem to be more fair than many in the way you approach this conversation, but I have to jump in here and say that I think you're just flat wrong in what you've said in this post. Christianity is not an "us versus them" theology. It's a recognition that we're all inherently flawed people and that none of us can be "good" enough to be worthy of living eternally with a purely holy God. Dogma has nothing to do with salvation. Relationship with Jesus does. That said, I think we all start from the same place when we look up at the night sky and realize just how very large the universe is and how very small we humans are. It's only natural that we ask the fundamental questions of how and why our universe exists and why is there life in at least this little outpost called earth. Atheists seem to want to claim the science mantle and cast those who believe in a creator into the realm of the ignorant and the superstitious. I guess I don't see it that way. The basic question of how did the universe begin can basically be answered in one of two ways: 1. It began through some totally natural process due to unknown and ultimately unknowable conditions that existed outside of our time and universe, since time began at the moment of the universe's creation; or 2. It began when an unknown creator instigated it through unknown and ultimately unknown processes from a point outside of our universe and time. Science, while a great method man has developed for studying his world and universe, has no way of getting at this problem since it invoves things that simply can't be inspected or tested. We can look at our universe and say that it most likely began with a big bang from a single point 14 or so billions years ago, but as to the causality...god or a natural process outside of our reality...there's no test that can exist or will ever exist to deal with that question. I think that there are a lot of reasons to believe that the order of the universe and the fine balancing of it's physical laws that allows it to continue to exist speaks of an intelligent design, but I'll be the first to admit that this is subject to personal interpretation. Similarly, the questions as to how and why life should exist are unlikely to be resolvable by scientific study. Why and how inanimate elements would be organized into lifeforms having the ability to replicate themselves is something that we have only the wildest of speculation about. When you think of the incredible amount of information contained in the DNA that allows even the simplest of single celled organisms to exist, when you think of how many processes have to exist within a cell simply to allow it to take in food, process it to derive energy, eliminate waste, etc., it seems to me to be pretty far fetched to believe that just happened by accident or through some random physical process. My belief is based upon my personal journey of thinking about these issues, reading the Bible, talking with others (believers and non-believers), life experiences, prayer, and faith. I can't prove God's existance, but I've felt His presence and seen His actions. I understand and accept that others who do not have the same faith will see my belief as misguided. Frankly, I've long passed the age where I'm too worried about the opinions of others about my thoughts and actions relative to my religion. Ultimately, I think that our response to what we think about these questions is about as deeply personal of a decision as we can make at humans. I get very tired of seeing people of faith or atheists trying to push their views onto others. I think that we should all have a lot more respect for the thoughts and decisions of other people. I'll gladly discuss my thoughts on these topics with anyone, but I'm not going to try to browbeat anybody into agreeing with me. I appologize for the arrogant actions of some well-intentioned but, I believe, ultimately misguided Christians who show anything but grace towards non-Christians. I do think that it would be nice if some of you here would at least show a bit more respect for those of us who do believe. I fully believe that we should reciprocate with regard to your lack of belief.
Excellent post, I agree with some and not other parts, but thought it was interesting, fair and honest. Repped. There are just a couple points I want to make. You may feel that Christianity is not us vs them, and I suppose for many many Christians they are not adversarial in that way. I painted with too broad a brush. I personally have felt many times that my lack of accepting of Christ had made me "the other" and history has born out that the us vs them track has come into play many times. But, I have also felt accepted and loved by believers so I know some do truly act in an all-accepting way. I also know that there are atheists who also create a divide and perpetuate the us vs them mentality. I personally try not to act hat way, though I do enjoy discussing these topics. The other part I wanted to touch on, I have stated several times here and it has been attacked more by the atheists than the Christians. I have no problem with people like you or Mags saying you see god in the areas that science can't reach. Did god create the Big Bang and set forth the laws and conditions to create the scenario that will lead to life? I don't think so, but if that is your stance I'm fine with that. My issue is where religion contradicts the known. The age of the earth is an example of that. As far as this thread, I started it because I was interested in understanding how Christians think about something specific. I have no idea if there was a man Jesus, I don't care. What still has not been answered and was the point of the thread, I want to know how people can believe in the biblical Jesus when almost every story about his birth, life and death can be attribute to earlier works? Do people not believe the earlier works, do they believe those works are false, do they just not allow themselves to contemplate the conundrum, how do Christians deal with belief when juxtaposed with the knowable when the knowable throws in a monkey wrench?
Well e blazer and GOD; I liked both your comments. It's nice knowing that some sides aren't as arrogant as that "broad brush" that was described. I think Denny classified it well. I do believe philosophy governs the soul; while science is the tool in which man can monitor. That science can't govern morality; instead the pursuit of philosophy will net good will.
I like that idea. Almost makes me want to learn more about Christianity. It's when people start saying you will go to hell unless you do this, that turns me off about the whole thing and why I probably haven't seriously considered learning about it (my rebellious side). In my mind, I know I'm a good person. If there is a heaven and hell, I can't believe it comes down to if you followed a certain belief or believe in something or not. This idea that you will go to hell if you don't do A, B and C seems so silly to me. Also, I suspect being a biology major in college has really shaped a lot of what I believe . . . for better or for worse.
And just where in the Bible does it say anything like this? As Christopher Hitchens would say, the God of the Bible is more in line with the dictator of North Korea. Neither the constitution nor articles of confederation had anything to do with christianity or the bible, try reading them sometime. They were purely secular legal documents.
Mags is right. Very cool stuff.....God's Grace, that is.....being a free gift to those who choose (most certainly not able to earn) it. As Romans 3:20-25 relates.....
you are being quite presumptuous here. given the exponential nature of the technological revolution, for all you know a few hundred years from now scientists will be designing and creating universes and life in labs. I appreciate your points about harmonious discussion, but at the same time I'm really bugged by all the god-of-the-gaps arguments every theist here invariably falls back on when discussing scientific topics. The fact that we don't currently know something does not make the answer a matter of personal philosophy. It just means we don't know, and there's nothing wrong with that. Lack of knowledge does not validate and shouldn't be used to enable theism.
I think it's presumptuous of you to assume that you can believe in something that hasn't been observed; yet you claim our beliefs aren't valid because we can't observe God.
You should look into it man. I think understanding the true meaning of grace is good for every person. Ultimate forgiveness. Something I think religions and atheists aren't too familiar with. This is why I get frustrated about preaching from certain groups. Saying things like; "you are dammed to hell because you don't follow the rules". Problem; none of us can follow the rules. Isn't it wonderful to know that God actually knows this and that's why he came and gave his life for us? So we won't have to live in doubt anymore? That now we can stop dying and start living again?
