That is a great analogy. I would agree... Although I believe there are many people that use Christianity and its power on the faithful to start church cults. Kinda like your Jim Jones and David Koresh reference.
I thought it was a pretty good point as well. So perhaps Christianity as a whole is not a cult, but there are many subsets, built around one preacher or pastor who is particularly charismatic, that might fit the Cult label better.
Yes it absolutely is. There is no magical threshold at which a number of beliefs or statements in a doctrine officially becomes a doctrine. A widely accepted definition of atheism specifically states that it is a doctrine of beliefs. Ah, so now you want to decide whether or not something is a cult based on the size of their doctrine. You're grasping at straws here. No you aren't. You're trolling and ignoring the logical, definition-based reasoning that shows just as much of a connection between atheism and cults as christianity and cults. If you were asking these questions honestly, you'd be open to accepting the other side of the coin. Yes, and I gave you an answer using your own definitions. You didn't like it and claimed it as no connection. This shows that you don't want to have a discussion, you want to be intellectually dishonest, and want people to just respond in agreement that christianity is a cult so it makes you feel better about your beliefs.
Yes, just like certain atheist groups like the Soviet Union or China, that used Atheism to murder millions of people. Anytime you have a group of people that share the same beliefs with a passionate level, the wrong leader can make them do crazy things.
I've read them. And they are the same as the other multitude of threads you've started for trolling purposes.
Well considering i have said in a couple of responses that I agreed with Nikolokolus post and that Christianity might not be a cult, I don't believe you.
Way to go out on a limb of open-mindedness: "Chrisianity might not be a cult". Where did you state that "atheism might be a cult", which would actually show that you're open to discussion?
Try this for a cult. But then maybe Fatwa is a more accurate term. http://www.thenationofislam.org/greateststoryevertold.html
Well I got sidetracked with your line of interrogation, but I was going to agree with Mags here I would agree that these, particularly the Soviet Union, in which there Atheism became a cult or at least cult-like. I am not sure if that is the case moving forward for the initial formation, because once people who were murderers came to power, we really don't know if the followers at that time were following the leader like a they would a cult leader, or following a leader so they wouldn't get their lives taken or their family ripped apart. EDIT: Also, I am not sure since part of the belief was atheism, but a larger part of the belief, the unifying belief, was an economical and social belief shared by people, the religious aspect was more secondary. I would really have to think more about this issue.
A cult by definition is something that does not adhere to the commonly held beliefs of a certain religion (i.e., Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses are cults), More importantly they were started at a particular time by a person (Joseph Smith, and Charles Taze Russell). They also have numerous rules and regulations and they will disfellowship anyone who disagrees with their errant doctrine. Christianity is a religion, not a cult. There are no Overly aggressive evangelization False teaching: Hyperexclusivism Brainwashing CULT, CULTIC GROUP Deceit in recruitment Totalitarian Destroys that family unit Isolates its members Keeps non-believers out Limits development of individual Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process Criticism is met with threats of legal action Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed RELIGION Information offered up front Allows freedom of thought and members have a say Promotes the family unit Works within society Open to general community Interested in promoting potential While there are guidelines members are not systematically controlled Thought before commitment is encouraged as part of conversion process People are free to speak out against the tenets of a religion Clergy are expected to be responsible for their words and actions Critical thinking is allowed and sometimes even encouraged
Actually Christianity is a philosophy. The various churches follow a religion, like the Catholic church is a religion or the the Anglican Church teaches a religion.
Nik pointed out some commonly held views of cults that were not in the definition, but that perhaps should be, and likewise yours might also be something that should be added to the definition. But according to all of the definitions I posted in the original thread, all from the M-Web dictionary, there is nothing in the definition that says "a cult is something that does not adhere to the commonly held beliefs of a certain religion. There are certainly large groups of Christians that belong to churches that are overly aggressive in my mind, and most certainly have false teaching and brainwashing. Perhaps not all, and maybe not the majority, but many do. I don't think it's totally clear cut. I think more that it is based on specific churches or regions.
Well that's the thing about language. The word "cult" is just a symbol used to represent an idea or concept. In this case I think the textbook definition is failing to account for what most people actually might mean when they use the word to describe a particular kind of religious group.
ya, the more that I read responses like yours and MM's, I agree. I think that too often we get locked into textbook definitions. Some things can be precisely defined, like a bridge or a wristwatch. But some things have far more intricacies than a definition can capture. When I strip away the textbook definition of cult, and go upon my personal understanding of what a cult would be, I would say that Christianity is not a cult, but there are certainly subsets that are. If you ever watch Jesus camp, the indoctrination reminds me of a cult. Likewise some of the TV evangelists promise cures and require money and devotion as I would expect cults to do. So I guess the answer is just, sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the specifics of the situation.
He is just someone who feels that something close and important to him is being attacked. And, he is kind of right. We don't mean it in an aggressive way, just want to discuss the issues and hope that we can get others to understand our perspective, and maybe even give up on religion, but none the less, it is still a bit of an attack. I tried to explain that I was not just trolling, but trying to have a dialogue, but he simply didn't believe it. Oh well, perhaps one day he will see the light (atheism).
There you go! Christianity is a philosophy, There are many Churches that practice a religion based upon the philosophy. There are also some that are more cult like and then there are some that are pure shysters passing the hat and then passing it again.
I don't agree that it's a philosophy, more that its an umbrella religion. Not going off of a definition, that was folly once in this thread. I would say a philosophy provides basic tenants of how to approach a subject, which could fit Christianity. But philosophy also does not require the belief in someone, especially someone unproven. Christianity as a whole might provide a scaffolding as a philosophy does, but it goes too far in that it requires specific thoughts and a set of beliefs. If you could subtract Christ from Christianity, I think it would be a philosophy, but once you have to believe that a specific person is a god, died, and came back for our sins, I think that goes far beyond philosophy. It just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.
