Why is race even a part of the discussion here? Facts: A) Someone was shot and killed B) The courts decided that it was in keeping with the "Stand Your Ground" law. Engaging in hypotheticals about whether or not someone was white or black or hispanic or vice versa seems dumb. If you don't like the law, try to get the law repealed. If you don't want people being killed after trying to beat up someone else, tell them not to try to beat people up. Especially in a state where there are "Stand Your Ground" laws. I expected many of my friends of the liberal persuasion to follow the President's lead on this (how many "I guess it's not ok to be black in FL" posts have there been? Over a dozen, and not just from African-American friends of mine), but to take the view that it's a racial issue magnifying our collective phobia about people who aren't old, white and male seems so stupid to me that it's beyond my comprehension how people can think that and then look in the mirror in the morning. "Don't bring fists to a gunfight" seems appropriate to emphasize here. Or, perhaps even more appropriate, as my dad told me when I was growing up: "Don't get into fights like I did. When I was a kid, if you got your ass kicked, it was over. Now, (late 80's), if you win a fight the loser will likely come at you with a knife or baseball bat and really try to hurt you. Don't give them that opportunity." Here's the hypothetical that counts: If Mr. Martin had chosen not to fight Mr. Zimmerman, he would either a) be alive right now or b) Zimmerman would be in jail for the rest of his life for wantonly murdering him. Knowing the laws are half the battle, knowing when to walk away the other. Tragic, but (for those of the non-religious persuasion) Darwinian.
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod How do you not understand that the prosecution didn't even bring that up in court?
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod Well, good luck working at Wal-Mart. I do have some lawyer buddies who are successful, though. They don't piss away time on the intertubes. EDIT - I'm being a dick. Later.
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod I didn't say they did or didn't. I'm just stating that he was on top, with him pinned down. You refuted that. I proved that it was true. Yet, I'm uninformed.
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod I won't be working at Wal-Mart, thanks. I'll have more than just a law degree.
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod Then the prosecution was retarded. Come on, if he was found guilty, would you be singing the praises of the legal system? Just stop. And here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CjRp-vIvTNg go to 33:20 and listen from there.
The media made it about race when they tried to make the dude out as a white guy. If his name had been Juan Hernandez I guarantee this case wouldn't even have made the national news, but his name is George Zimmerman, which is about as white as you can get.
My hope is that people learn from this tragedy and try to not solve problems with illegal violence. And if they do, that they are eradicated. I wish Bryan Stow had had a weapon on him and the legal right to use it when people started shoving his head into concrete and punching him in the face for being a Giants fan at a Dodger game. Instead, he's a brain-damaged, crippled and unemployed firefighter.
The other hypothetical that counts: not chasing him when you're told to wait for the police! Like I said, I have no clue how this really went down, so I don't know how to feel. I'm not pro him being convicted or not convicted. Too many unknowns.
My problem with the whole situation is that he shouldn't have been there. I own guns, I have a CHL, but I almost never carry because A) I don't want to be in a situation like this one, and B) I don't want to feel "naked" like so many people who do carry on a daily basis. I would rather avoid situations where I might have to use my sidearm, rather than put myself in a position where I would have to use it (like Zimmerman did). I get the whole "I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" theory, but I generally don't put myself in places or situations where I would ever need a loaded gun. Maybe that's just me.
Sorry if I sound insensitive, but I really couldn't care less. People die every day, people are murdered every day, and this is not news to me. This shouldn't have been a huge national story. The only reason why it was is because it was a black kid, and a guy with a white sounding name. That's it. How many gang members are killed in Los Angeles every year? How many of them are under 18? How many are shot by latinos? This is not a news story.
I think we have bigger fish to fry as a nation as well. I think that although this MAY be multi-layered - the whole, assuming he was breaking into houses because he looked like a "thug" - is concerning, but its not like this doesn't happen dailyx1000 in other places. They compared this to the Emmitt Till case, which is absurd. Us black people need to focus on black on black crime which is way more prevalent than x on black crime, then we can have a conversation. But as it is? Go to any major city and you see this OR worse, daily.
Yeah, no. It's much more layered than that. The fact that he was an "independent vigilante" type. The fact that he made comments to the police about "those people" and "punks." The fact that he was a grown ass man, trained in MMA, and had to shoot a skinny 17 year old. Those things stir up questions about race, community relationships, and 2nd amendment rights.
Okay, so why don't we look closer at why Latinos and black people don't get along? Because if we want to start looking at race, that's where you need to start.
Why can't we as a forum or we as a nation? Honestly, it's the same answer: because 90% of the people are 8 years old emotionally and will just devolve into race-based bickering. We might as well be the United States of PapaG. There's PLENTY of research about this kind of stuff. I'm just saying it's more complicated than you're making it out to be. This wasn't gang violence.
I'd love more discussion on things of this nature, and it's something I've done in the past both in public and in private. And yet, I haven't seen any questions on this thread or in my facebook thread about community relationships, 2nd amendment rights, benefits (or not) of neighborhood watch programs, etc. Instead, friends are saying "I guess you can't be a black man in FL"..."Here come race riots"..."MLK's dream is dead"... Nothing about the content of these two mens' character. Just talk about their friggin' skin color. WTH?
I agree. I can see how people would focus on race, because that's the most salient factor here. But to me, what happened says much more about how we view one another, how we view community and how we view concepts like self defense and justice.
