Drummond was picked two spots earlier, FYI. I had wanted Drummond at #6, though I was always liked Lillard and was happy with him. I wanted to pick Drummond as soon as we made the trade with NJ. I was hoping Drummond at 6 and Lillard at 11, but Lillard continued to climb up draft boards.
So if we traded with the team before Detroit, we would have arguably 2 of the best 3 players in that draft.
I still don't get all the angst and remorse over our 21-year old 3rd string center. We have had TWO MORE threads on this topic pop up in that last 24 hours. He was a project when picked. Everyone kthat. At the time of the draft, no one really expected anything out of him until his 3rd or 4th season in the league. Now, here he is, 16 minutes of PT into his second season, and people are freaking out on a daily basis about his lack of progress. Shit, someone even started a thread a couple days ago saying we should waive him. Calm the fuck down people. Why all of a sudden do we need to cut/trade the guy 16 minutes into his second season when we all knew he was a 3 - 4 year project, and a high risk one at that? Is it because Lillard is so much better than expected and we all want to win now and aren't willing to be patient? Did the forum collectively forget that Leonard was a long term project and not someone who could immediately be expected to be part of the rotation at the beginning of his second season? Is it that the 26-year old Freeland, who looked just as lost as Leonard last season, has made much better progress than the 21-year old Leonard? Or is it just the overriding mentality of this forum that no matter how good, or bad, the team is performing, we always need a scapegoat or whipping boy? I personally think it's a bit of all of the above, but mostly the latter. It just seems like there are some posters here, some of them VERY prolific, that just aren't happy unless they have something to bitch about. BNM
Tell you what, if all the threads piss you off, go hang out in the Milwaukee Bucks forum. Blissfully peaceful.
Tell you what, stop making baseless assumptions and telling me what to do. Did I say I was pissed off? No, because I'm not. Confused would be more accurate. I just don't get why there is so much hand ringing and teeth gnashing over our 3rd string center who was known to be a long term project when drafted. The team is 4-2 and Freeland has shown himself to be an adequate backup. Yet we had 2 threads yesterday about Leonard's lack of progress and one the day before actually suggesting we waive him. Just seems a bit excessive to me. Perhaps we could just have a single sticky thread on the topic rather than starting multiple new threads daily. BNM
What's funny to me is all the he's garbage lets waive / trade him talk is exactly what was being said about Freeland last year
To quote the great Arvydas Sabonis: "If my grandmother had a beard she'd be my grandfather" (I think that's the cleaned-up version.)
The thing is, Leonard looked better last year. The kid just looks completely lost in every way. So it looks as if he taken two steps back. If he wasn't 7"1 250lbs I'm sure he''d be in the D League.
Yep, and in Meyer's case we are CONSTANTLY told he'll never get it, the things he lacks can't be taught/learned, either you have them or you don't. And, Joel Freeland, at five years older just proved that wrong. Players can learn to improve their defensive positioning and technique. They can become better defenders and shot blockers. They can go from totally clueless to a legitimate part of the rotation. Freeland is just the latest example, but big men, especially when they don't have a lot of experience playing against NBA caliber athletes, take time to develop. We knew that about Leonard when he was drafted, but the vast majority of the posters here seem to have forgotten that. I'm not saying Leonard will suddenly get it and blossom overnight. In fact, I'm saying the opposite. The kid needs more time to learn the game, but the things he lacks CAN be learned. Will he ever make that step? Who knows, there is no guarantee he will, but at 21, there is also no guarantee he won't. If we want to find out, we'll just have to be a little more patient. BNM
So, you've managed to deduce that after just 16 minutes of playing time? Well, if you can play the small sample size card, so can I. Leonard has a PER of 16.5, his TRB% is second on the team, he leads the team in WS/48, has an ORTg of 170 (best on the team) and DRtg of 109 (team average). And, he's put up those gaudy numbers while playing 70% of his minutes against the best center in the game. Seriously, the guy has played 5 minutes of garbage time and 11 minutes head-to-head against Dwight Howard. Can you really reach ANY conclusions about his progress based on that sample size? Yes, I agree the guy is incredibly raw and needs a lot of work - exactly what I'd expect for a player that was drafted as a long term project. BNM
Well I'm sure the Blazers staff sees more of him than we do in practices. Before the season started I expected and I think most everyone else did also that Leonard would be the backup center. We'll see but it just seems odd to me that he isn't playing more than he is. Maybe it's just that Freeland progressed more than Leonard in the off season.
That's exactly it. The 26-year old Freeland has shown more progress and has EARNED those minutes. Still, I have seen hints of progress by Leonard. One of the big improvements in Freeland's game is he's learned the principle of verticality. Last season he was constantly out of position on defense, grabbing at players and jumping into them. He has now learned how to get in position, jump straight up, keep his arms straight up and block and challenge shots without committing fouls. That two-handed block on Outlaw was one example, but he's doing it on a consistent basis. I saw Meyers do the same thing against Houston. I don't remember who the player was, but they drove the lane and Meyers came with the help defense. He was called for the foul, but on the replay, it looked like he went straight up. I think the foul could have gone either way, and if Leonard was a veteran, it probably would have been a non-call. But, at least he was trying to do the right thing. He actually thought about what he was doing and did it, all in a split second. And, that's something we didn't see from him last season. Last season he was all reaction - and always way too late. It was just one play, and he did get called for the foul, but at least he anticipated the action, got in proper position and did the right thing. It's not much, but it is progress for a player that is so young and raw. In the end, I think Freeland's progress may help Leonard. I know it's cutting into his playing time, but I hope he's watching what Freeland is doing different this season, learning from it and using it as inspiration to improve those areas of his game. He's still got a long, long way to go, but he's still very young and not part of the regular rotation. Let him go head-to-head with Lopez and Freeland in practice and learn from them. Send him down to Idaho occasionally to get some game time experience and boost his confidence, to apply what he's learning in practice to game situations. BNM
Totally disagree BNM. Leonard was a project but you expect to see glimpses of good basketball potential mixed with bonehead plays from these young guys. Leonard hasn't displayed those flashes defensively or with rebounding. He isn't just bad in those areas he's amazing hopeless. Watching young players like Babbitt and Meyers you can tell they are different than other young guys like 18yr old Nic Batum or 20 year old LaMarcus or 19 year old Martell Webster. Lenoard just doesn't have any of that potential. Some of us have watched a lot of him in summer league and preseason as well as all of last season. Leonard has displayed skill with his outside shooting and has a chance of carving out a niche roll with that skill but he just doesn't project to be an NBA center. Its the same as when a young Bayless was on the team, he could score on many types of defenders but he would never be a pass first PG no matter what training we gave him in summer league. Same with Leonard, he might carve out a roll on an NBA team but it'll never be as a defensive rebounding center.
Would you have said the same thing about the much older Joel Freeland after watching him all last season - that he'd never be a defensive, rebounding center? He certainly looked just as lost as Leonard last season, and was always very slow to react on defense - and look at him now. Totally different player. I'm not saying Leonard will get there, in fact I know it's a long shot. I always have. I'm just saying it's not impossible for him to improve his weaknesses and it's too early to give up on a 21-year old we knew was a high risk, long term project when drafted. BNM
It's funny, but if you go back and read the 2013 grade the draft thread. more people were upset about taking Lillard at 6 (instead of Barnes) than Leonard at 11. So much for the ranters always being right. Opinions on Drummond were wildly mixed. One or two thought we should have taken him at 6 over Lillard, but most were glad we avoided him altogether. Interesting. BNM
Another fucking Leonard thread. Can't we just combine them all and have an all-encompassing Hater thread for him? He didn't even play last game.
You beat me to it. The obsession over Leonard is ridiculous, IMO, but if people feel the need to freak the fuck out over him, how about a Sticky, since he's basically an afterthought in the rotation.
