So the new CBA allows four year contracts when you don't have bird rights? I'd give 'Melo two years, I might go four? That's not horrible if you write off the last year of the deal. I'm not crazy about 'Melo in general, though. I think he would make the team interesting and different. If you're looking to make lateral moves to shake things up then effectively shipping Noah and Deng for Melo does that. I also like the idea of upgrading offensively at three positions (sf, pf, and c). Of course what are the chances that he would sign here? Very, very thin. Why would he ever leave NY when they'll be able to offer him so much more? Look I don't hate your idea of breaking things apart. I think it's conceivable that you could execute it too. You would have a two year window to use the cap space to acquire free agent talent before you'd need to decide on Butler. I'm not sure it's any better then just keeping things as is. The franchise is surprisingly bad and Hinrich hasn't even gotten injured yet. I still like Teague but his play has been abysmal in schemes built around the point guard. They might not need any help getting deep into the lottery. I think the Bulls actually have a lot of potential directions they could go in. Especially because so many fans seem ready for the team to rebuild.
SST, Any team with Deng, Noah, Boozer, and Taj is going to win too many games. Thibs can win with girls.
Likely, but you agree that the Bulls aren't getting crap in return for moving any of those guys? The only advantage to moving the core is the higher number of lottery balls.
Lottery is where we got Deng, Hinrich, BG, and Noah. And Rose. And Brand. Not lottery gets you Teague. And Taj. And Jimmy. And Snell. You can get a nice player here, but not your cornerstone.
Sometimes when you're debating one topic you're actually debating another. I get what you're saying. It seems like it's going to take two elite, elite talents to win a championship; especially with Derrick Rose facing a long journey back from being out for two seasons. I think the reason I'm bullish on keeping Deng, and Noah and Gibson for that matter, is that I view Mirotic as potentially that next cornernstone. I think there's enough of a chance of that happening that it feels like a better course of action to keep the marginal allstar vets and forego the small but real chance you find a cornerstone in the draft. Does that make sense?
For sure, Mirotic is the big X-factor here. I've only seen highlights of him so I still don't have a strong opinion on whether he's more Ilyasova or Euro-Durant. I believe he'll be a dangerous shooter, capable athlete, adequate rebounder, questionable defender, and efficient scorer, but I'm still not sure what tier I should peg him in at.
You said the only reason to get rid of the guys is to get more ping pong balls. I think we need to get as many ping pong balls as possible. I thought last season was the lost season. Now it's last season and this. Well, I bet it's next, too, whether we keep those guys or not. So it is an ideal chance to reload. Unless Mirotic is truly going to be like Dirk (MVP winner), we are in serious middling hell. Even if he is like Dirk, it took years for Dirk to win MVP and it took about 4 years for him to begin playing that caliber of ball. Rose would be what, 30?
You're leaning too far out over your skis, Denny. The Bulls had a very good non-championship team two years ago, and they could have had an even better one this season. All it takes one Heat injury, or noticeable drop off and the Bulls are right there. I know every two-bit media personality is dancing the can can on the Bulls' grave -- pounding their chests and proclaiming just how right they were -- but the Bulls had a chance to win a championship this season. I feel like you're just a little too desperate at this juncture for a new influx of talent. Deng, Noah, Gibson, Butler . . . you can win with those guys. That's a hell of a start. It looks like Snell may be a nice pickup as well. You probably have a couple more draft picks this year and some foreign talent -- let's see what happens. Lebron James is getting older too.
Key words "non championship" With MVP Rose and a better bench/depth, we made the EC finals in a weak East (but Heat are in it). It was a close series with both Atlanta and Indy, considering our record. We haven't gotten past the 2nd round since. We're built to win regular season games, not go deep in the playoffs. Had a chance to win the championship this season? They were playing for 2014 season all along. Mirotic being the next great carrot at the end of the stick. And management failed to bring in a 2nd superstar claiming it was hard (while other teams somehow did it). Looks to me like they have to stumble into that 2nd superstar, and I wouldn't bet it's Mirotic going to be in LeBron's class of player.
For years the org did whatever it took to get more ping pong balls. Sometimes those ping pong balls result in all out busts like Marcus Fizer. Sometimes you get a really high pick and it turns into Jay Williams, and tragedy strikes. Sometimes you land an Eddy Curry, who while productive is flawed and eats himself out of the league. Sometimes you actually land future sixth men of the year and defensive players if the year / champions in Jamal Crawford and Tyson Chandler and you let them waltz out the door for nothing. Sometimes you get an Elton Brand who while good does really win a lot of NBA basketball games for you and will force you to either pay him a lot of money or let him go. Sometimes the lotto pick turns in to role players like Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon. Sometimes you get all-star level players in Luol Deng and Joakim Noah, who are not going to be "the man" but could be cornerstones of a championship team. When the Bulls were playing the ping pong ball game, it didn't really work out. And that was, what, a decade of that? When the Bulls were not playing the ping pong ball game is when dumb luck struck and we landed a MVP level superstar. And even that can go south on you. We have one of the best coaches in the NBA who can seemingly get the most out of nearly anyone and gets his players to play hard. And he can win. We have an all-star level, all defensive team center. We have an all-star level small forward. Some good young / youngish talent as well in Snell, Butler, Gibson. Mirotic is a ? but could be an asset. A chance to add more or parlay with a Charlotte pick. Thibs also has established a good culture with this team. The Bulls are no longer losers or have a losing mentality. That does count for something. These are all good assets. If you have the MVP level player to plug into the mix you can really be a threat. If you revert back to playing the ping pong ball game, you basically have to lose all of the current assets you have, except for Rose. And, there are so many bad teams in the NBA this year, you are probably not get the most balls. And then you're talking 2-3 years to develop the 18-19 year old you draft even if you do hit the lotto. And we've seen first hand the ping pong ball game isn't all its cracked up to be. The Bulls have to make 2 decisions, IMO, and the first one is the most important. They have to decide if Derrick Rose is going to be a high level all-star again if not an MVP short term. If this can happen, you don't blow up this team. If you don't think it can, you blow it up.' The other tough call is Deng. He's going to command 13-15 mil a year over four years. Is having Deng at age 29.30.31.32 after LOTS of miles worth tying up salary. The Deng we're seeing this year will be the youngest, most motivated Deng we'll see, so that has to be kept in mind. ALso, if you are going to have Thibs as coach, Deng is a guy he feels is key to winning. IF Rose can be a high level All-Star / MVP and Deng can continue to be an all-star level for the first 3 years of that contract at least, you can run with Rose/Deng/Noah as your core and Butler/Snell/Gibson/Mirotic/Pick as the rest. That will be a good team and as the Heat superteam fades as Wade fades it will be a contender. And the Bulls need to do everything they can to convert Butler/Snell/Gibson/Pick into another very above average if not all-star level scorer. I can be on board with that. Its unclear from my view from the 300 level how Rose will pan out and its also unclear if Deng will be worth what he'll command. Having Butler and Snell being able to potentially play the 3 has to be kept in mind as well, but people tend to forget how good Luol Deng is and that guys like Butler are still very unproven (1 solid year as a backup, now hurt). As it stands right now, blowing it up just doesn't feel right to me. We have too many assets to start another potentially decade long ping pong ball game. And, once you've torn down the house, getting the ping pong balls is the easy part. The Bulls never turned the ping pong ball game into an MVP level guy while they were actually playing that game. Can Deng keep playing at this current level for at least 3 more seasons? Can Rose be a high level all-star MVP again? If the answer to those two questions is yes, I say stand pat. But those two questions are the tough ones.
Post of the year. Denny you say that other teams have been able to add a second superstar? The only teams that have done that that I can see are OKC and the Heat. OKC had the best five year drafting run in the history of the NBA and the rules don't apply to the Heat because of LJ; which is to say, of course the Bulls are going to need to stumble into a second superstar, whatever path they choose. That's always how it goes. GarPax is pretty damn good at this drafting thing. They really are. Paul George was drafted at 24. Tony Parker was drafted at 28, and Manu Ginobili at 20. So maybe I can only point to three legit superstars who weren't lottery picks. There's really only two handfuls of legit superstars to begin with. They're nearly impossible to find regardless of whether you're trolling for lottery balls or drafting at the end of the first round.
Wait... How did Melo end up on the Knicks? Howard on the Rockets? Harden on the Rockets? Iggy to the Warriors? Paul to the Clippers? Hopefully the point is made.
Touch 'em all, K4E. Brought a damn tear to my eye. Like you, I feel the Bulls need to take the risk that Rose can return as an impact player. This Bulls team has been built around a superstar Derrick Rose. The complementary pieces fit. It's worth waiting to find out if Rose can be Rose again. Deng is the rub. The Bulls need to shit or get off the pot on Deng. If they're not confident that they can re-sign Deng, they need to trade him for something that may be useful.
Isn't it odd that people forget how this group of players was acquired? Late 1st round picks, free agents on the cheapest contract possible, and a massive dumping of our talent from a 49 win team and an almost complete rebuild over the course of one season. Don't we remember cleaning out the entire roster, including the coach's favorite Kirk, to be able to sign free agents? If you think we're somehow a contender now, it's because we tanked. Vinnie led us to a 41-41 record with this roster: Joe Alexander Devin Brown Luol Deng Taj Gibson Aaron Gray Kirk Hinrich * (* = he wasn't with the team his entire career) Lindsey Hunter James Johnson Acie Law Brad Miller Flip Murray Joakim Noah Jannero Pargo Chris Richard Derrick Rose John Salmons Tyrus Thomas Haskim Warrick By PER Rose 18.6 Noah 17.9 Thomas 16.5 Deng 16.1 Warrick 15.7 Law 15.4 Taj 13.8 Miller 12.9 Salmons 12.7 Murry 12.1 Captain Kirk 11.6 Johnson 10.4 The rest under 10.
