Which ex-Blazer would you be happy to get back?

Roy's second year was much more impressive than Damians. Roy was playing like one of the best couple of guards in the league and carrying the team every night. Roy was unstoppable driving to the rim, and if the defense doubled he'd find the open man. Damian is a much better shooter but if he is playing a good defender he can’t make them pay for defending him one on one.

 

That's not true. We saw it many times last year that defenders couldn't take him one on one. He's struggling right now, but he'll get it back. I'm not trying to take anything away from Roy, he was an amazing talent when he was healthy, but Dame has the potential to be just as good, and he has all the same markings that Roy did. Their numbers have been eerily similar, and Damian outplayed Roy in many ways during his rookie season.

 

Comparing Roys full second season to Lillard's so far, it's pretty surprising to me to see them come up as basically a draw statistically, whether you want to talk regular or advanced stats.

I suppose you could point to Roy's team only went 41-41, whereas this current team may win 55 games. But that '07 team was much less talented. Their third best player was probably Steve Blake. Trout was the only other guy besides LMA and Roy who got real minutes to put up even a 15 PER. Portland is winning more now because of overall talent.

At this point I think it's pretty fair to describe Lillard as a Roy-level talent.

Interestingly, Roy had a poorer November that year, peaked in December statistically, and fell off a little after that. Just eyeballing it, it looks like Lillard had a much better November this year than Roy did that year. So Lillard has a head start on having a better sophomore year than Roy did.

 

Dame's problem right now is his shooting. Once that comes up a bit, he'll pull away from Roy in terms of advanced stats.

 

Funny--I think of both of these guys as seasoned NBA veterans by the time they were in their second years. The guys are only 23.

 

That wasn't ther rookie seasons, it was their career through their 2nd years.

You stated tht Lillard had a better rookie and this far soph season, the burden is yours

 

And you brought up ortg, drtg, and WS first, and then used them again as the meat of your argument...they were merely a garnish for mine

 

Because of McMillan's weak 4th quarters, we wouldn't have won any games without Roy. The current team is not nearly as dependent upon Lillard.

Roy is called a guard, but played almost half his minutes at SF due to his great size.

 

He averaged significantly more points and assists, not to mention the numerous accomplishments he had on top of his overall stats. Do I need to go back and look up all those different milestones that he hit?

Sorry, but he definitely outplayed Roy as a rookie. This season it's much closer, but I think Dame has the slight edge.

 

Wrong. The meat of your argument, as it were, is that Roy is better because of his advanced stats. How can it be a garnish when Dame is currently outplaying him in terms of advanced stats?

 

I wonder how PER is calculated, must be just random numbers

 

Before we go any further, you understand what pace is right?

 

Okay, and?

Only one of three players to in the history of the league to score 1500 points and hand out 500 assists in their rookie season.

Only the fourth unanimous ROY in the history of the league, and that was against much stiffer competition than Roy faced (Bargnani lol)

There was a whole list of accomplishments like this, to go with the significantly more points and assists per game.

 

This means nothing whatsoever to the argument. Swirsky is not a fault of roys.

PER is a good way to compare players whos teams play at different paces, this is well known. Tell me why roys is better than lillards.

 

How does it mean nothing? He did something that only two other players in the HISTORY OF THE NBA have accomplished. And that wasn't the only one. I'm trying to find a list of all the things he accomplished last season, but it's more difficult than I anticipated.

You say PER matters, and that Roy had better advanced stats during his rookie season, so that discounts the 2.2 PPG more and 2.5 assists per game that Dame had, but when I pointed out that Dame is beating Roy in many of those same advanced stats during his sophomore season, you said they're just a garnish?

The only reason why I brought up the advanced stats in the first place was because the two are having almost identical numbers, so I used the advanced stats as a tie breaker of sorts, but Dame's numbers were so much more impressive in his rookie campaign. You bring up pace, but Dame still beats him in PER 36.

 

Ok, so you dont understand pace, that's all you had to say

Please, explain to me why your analysis doesn't jive with PER, I'm all ears. Maybe you have discovered some stat wormhole. Doubt it.

 

Okay, so you realize that you sound like the guys who said Anthony Davis should have won the ROY? Throw everything else out the window, right? Stats, accomplishments, all of that..... PER is all that matters, right? I guess Davis should have won the ROY.

 

Here are somewhat useless rookie year pace-adjusted stats.

Lillard
http://bkref.com/tiny/0c6K6
Roy
http://bkref.com/tiny/GG23N

 

I would also like to point out that part of the reason why the Blazers played at such a slow pace was BECAUSE of Roy. He personally played at a slower pace. It was discussed multiple times when he played here.

 

You are really bad at this

During their rookie years Roy had a better Ts%, ft rate, rb%, less TOs, more steals, shot better from 2p AND 3pt, and just for you, a better drtg, ortg, WS/48, AND.....a better PER.

Your statement that Lillard had a better rookie season based on ppg and chuck swirsky falls flat. Sorry.