Record-High 42% of Americans Identify as Independents

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  2. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    Its kind of an embarrassing time to admit you're a Republican. As shown by your chart.
     
  3. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

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    Independent and proud of it. Neither unions or churches or anyone else tells me how to vote.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  5. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree with this, I like to consider myself independent but I can't remember the last time I voted republican for anything. Its not like I try to follow party lines its just that I can't get behind what the republicans are doing at all. I have plenty of complaints about democrats but as of late they always seem to be the lesser or two evils. Then every time there is an independent candidate they always seem to be democrat or republican lite, and while I may like their more moderate message voting for them ends up being a wasted vote as you just divide your liberal or conservative vote into more candidates than the other side. I think we are stuck in this partisan rut for awhile.
     
  6. Further

    Further Guy

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    independent but liberal bent. But there are very few politicians I actually like. Ron Wyden I fully respect. After that, the waters get murky.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I registered as a republican in 1984, then as independent in 1988, then switched to Libertarian Party in 2008.
     
  8. Further

    Further Guy

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    I'm not a Libertarian at all, and think the ideas over the long haul are dangerous, but over the short term I think it might be a good idea to get a Libertarian in office, bring back a concentrated look at our rights, make it a focus for a few years. fiscally and regarding the duties of government, I disagree with Libertarians, but I like that they protect the amendments so strongly, like the 1st, ,2nd and 4th. I also tend to trust that Libertarians aren't in corporate pockets quite as much as the Republicans and Democrats. Until we can figure out a way to get big money out of politics, I won't really trust any politician to do what's right instead of whats being paid for.
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    So if a bunch of union workers pool their money and use it to lobby government, is that a bad thing? (I don't think so). So under what circumstances do you unequally treat groups of people that pool their money for the same purpose?
     
  10. santeesioux

    santeesioux Just keep on scrolling by

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    I'm an Independent, but i've been considering changing to Democrat so that i actually have a say in this state. Don't really like either party though.
     
  11. Further

    Further Guy

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    The way it stands now, of course the union should be able to pool it's resources and lobby. And they could do so with taking money out of politics also. Lobbing is just trying to convince the ones with power that your stance is correct. But the money involved is how those who do the lobbing buy the votes instead of truly lobby for their side. They pour money into the campaigns and spend money on superpac advertisements. Although this can result in good or bad outcomes, I think this is where the one biggest problem in all of government lies. The politicians do as lobbyists request not because they show evidence that their stance is the right stance, but because they can spend the most money essentially either buying votes or causing fear.

    I don't have a problem with the idea of a lobbyist, someone who represents a bank, teachers, water treatment companies, environmentalists, NRA supporters, or any other lobbyist trying to sway those in power to their line of thinking via the facts, but when the fact don't matter, just the dollar bills, then we end up with a situation where huge amounts of money are spent frivolously in order to keep reelection hopes alive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The politicians do not do as lobbyists request. Even if there is $1B spent on one side and $100M on the other, the amount lining the pockets of the politician should be $0 or pretty much the same either way. We don't hire politicians to take polls and do what they want, we hire them to rule on our behalf. That's the difference between a Democracy (which we're not) and a Republic.

    If the politicians are actually being bought, that's bribery and the politician belongs in jail. So fix those rules :)
     
  13. BLAZINGGIANTS

    BLAZINGGIANTS Well-Known Member

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    The Demcrats are afraid that if they don't clearly make it known they're Democrats, nobody will recognize them and they'll miss their free handouts.

    But really.... The two party system is a joke. It's not surprising that independents and other parties are rallying. Voting by party is ignorant. Vote for what you believe in and the candidates that most closely resemble your beliefs.
     
  14. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Independent is another word for "don't know" Anyone that is in favor of "Transforming America" is un informed. There is no provision in the Constitution
    for "Transforming America". There is only one party that is not in favor of "Transforming America". Independents have not expressed and opinion on the matter at all.
     
  15. Further

    Further Guy

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    That's naive to think that politicians don't do as the lobbyists wish based on money spent. And if an widget company can afford 50 mil, or some amount, they have a much greater chance to get pro-widget laws passed pro-widget policy to be enacted. Doesn't happen every time, it's not a simple slide of money under the table, but it's a quid pro quo situation. No, in most situations it's not a straight bribe, it's more along the lines of a company coming in and saying "we are big supporters of pro-widget politicians and plan to spend 50 mil over the next cycle in support of those candidates" and having that be understood as a de facto bribe, not for money, but for campaign help and also for a high likelihood of a lucrative position upon retiring from government.

    There are two big problems, the first I already explained, that money needs to be severed from politics, the second is that companies should not be considered people. People die within a very fixed time frame, companies don't. People can get sent to jail for illegal activities, companies can't. And people have brains and hearts, companies don't. An amendment needs to be made that companies don't get all the rights of people.
     
  16. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Here is my current guy to watch how he stacks up the sweet deals. He sure is no example of the highly intelligent, but he has made some bucks the past 10 years.
    Must be someone on his team giving him a hand.

    http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/peter-defazio/
     
  17. Further

    Further Guy

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    They are all over the place, and for the most part I don't think they are doing anything illegal. What I am saying is not that some guy earned x amount on stock tips or under the table, I'm saying the future promise of high paying positions or large re-election campaigns are where most of the money in politics is. I'm not trying to call out anyone specific, I think it's far more insidious than something one guy here or there does, I think it's become how the system operates, and you simply have no chance of getting to a fairly high office if you don't operate in this manor.

    What I'm saying is the law is bad, it's set up to have policy dictated by dollars over conscience. No matter what, there will be people who break the law and trade their votes for new decking on their houses, but most people, even politicians I believe follow the law. There are simply huge holes in the laws that allow money to dictate policy.





    Oh, and from what I know, I like Defazio, but I don't know too much. Just heard him in some interviews and read his name in the paper from time to time. He could be a scumbag, but I haven't seen any evidence of that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  18. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Peter was down here in Bandon talking to us in early 2009. Several of us were skeptical of this healthcare thing and he said he was too, he would watch it closely. Then all the sudden he is all for it and votes for the thing.
    I'll be damn if he didn't find away to get a couple million richer at the same time. That quite a feat simultaneous with studying that healthcare bill.

    I mailed him this shortly after I found out that myself and a 140,000 other former employees of a once great American company would no long provide us Healthcare.
    This after 52 years and now it's legal thanks to the ACR and prompted by this same act specifying the company pay a tax for each person covered with health care.

    Dear Peter,

    How can it be when you voted for this ACA that you didn't know that people covered by their employer
    or former employer in the case of retirees, would be dropped by the employer?
    The law contains a Tax on the employers for each person that they would continue to cover.
    Why was this tax implemented? It can not be to obtain revenue to cover other people.

    If it was, that was very dumb as well as totally unfair to the employers as well as the employees and
    retirees.

    It sure looks to me like the tax was intended to encourage employers to drop retirees and spouses
    to force more people into the exchanges.

    MarAzul




    Response (Notice he didn't address the questions at all).

    Dear Mr. MarAzul:

    Thank you for contacting me in favor of repealing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act in its entirety. I appreciate hearing from you.



    As you know, the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was upheld by the Supreme Court. The court ruled that the individual mandate requiring all Americans to either purchase health insurance or pay a tax is constitutional.



    If you already have private insurance the individual mandate will not affect you. If you have Medicare, VA health care or Medicaid the individual mandate will not affect you. If your income is under 400% of the poverty level, which is currently $44,680 for an individual or $92,200 for a family of 4, you will receive a discount on private health insurance. If you do not fall into any of these categories, and still wish to remain uninsured, you can pay a tax penalty and continue to be uninsured.



    Every Oregon family who buys insurance is paying an extra $1,400 in premiums every year to cover the small group of individuals who refuse to insure themselves. The emergency room is required to treat uninsured people. These uninsured patients often do not pay their bills. The hospital passes the cost on to insurance companies, and insurance companies pass the cost on to you. The individual mandate helps to make sure that these people get insurance so that you don't have to pay for them anymore.



    There are many aspects of the bill that need to be repealed or reformed, like the burdensome 1099 tax provision that was repealed with my support. There are many others that, I believe, most Americans can agree on.



    If the entire health care bill is repealed-

    Insurance companies would be able to deny you care because of a pre-existing condition- 316,000 people in Southwest Oregon could be denied care for having had conditions as common as high blood pressure or cholesterol.
    Your insurance company would be able to rescind your entire insurance policy on a technicality if you get sick, even if you had paid into that policy all of your life.
    Insurance companies would be able to place a cap on how much your policy will pay for medical care each year and over your life. Once you hit the cap they would not pay anything, no matter how much you had paid in premiums.
    Your insurance company would be able to kick your kids off of your policy the day that they graduate college.
    And if you are one of the 14,600 seniors in Southwest Oregon who fall in the dreaded "donut hole," your prescription drug costs would go up.



    All of these were legal practices of the insurance industry prior to being outlawed by the Affordable Care Act. I have many objections to provisions in the Affordable Care Act, and I have heard many concerns from my constituents, but I have never heard anyone say that they want to bring back these abusive practices that only benefit insurance industry profits.



    One thing that almost every Member of Congress and constituent that I have talked to has agreed on is my proposal to repeal the health insurance industry anti-trust exemption. The insurance industry has operated beyond the reach of America's anti-trust laws since the McCarran-Ferguson Act was passed in 1945. With this exemption health insurance companies can, and do, collude to drive up prices and exclude people from coverage. This is anti-competitive and anti free market. The Consumer Federation of America has said that repealing this exemption could save consumers 10% to 25% in insurance premiums.



    I was able to get a provision to repeal the health insurance industry's anti-trust exemption into the House-passed version of the Affordable Care Act, but the Senate stripped it out. In 2010 the House again passed a repeal of the anti-trust exemption, this time with over 400 bipartisan votes. The Senate again failed to act. I refuse to give into pressure from the insurance industry. Earlier this year I offered an amendment to repeal the anti-trust exemption. Despite the overwhelming bipartisan vote last year, the Republicans did not allow a vote on my amendment. If we are going to fix the healthcare problems in this nation, we need to get beyond rhetoric and move forward with common sense bipartisan solutions such as repealing the health insurance industry anti-trust exemption.



    The Affordable Care Act is far from perfect, but I believe that the bill should be reformed rather than repealed. I will be working with my colleagues on both sides of the isle to pass bipartisan reforms, and to remove burdensome provisions and wasteful spending from the existing bill. Thanks again for writing to me on this important issue. Please continue to keep in touch.







    Sincerely,

    Rep. Peter DeFazio
     
  19. TradeNurkicNow

    TradeNurkicNow piss

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    Same. I've found very few politicians worth voting for. Hooray for throwing your votes away, eh?
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    As a Libertarian, my answer is "if the politician can be bought, he has too much power." Or better put, he should't have the power that is worth trying to bribe.

    The money severed from politics is bullshit, sorry.
     

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