And I've no doubt players benifitted from THERE teachings. As did several players of the Angels who credit Carew for improving there game.
...neither DiMaggio nor Williams lasted very long as coaches, probably because both were egomaniacal dickheads...I never heard of any player/s who pointed to either of them as turning them into great hitters. ...my point is that regardless of how good a hitter was, they don't necessarily translate into good hitting coaches and conversely, just because hitting coaches did not distinguish themselves as good hitters when/if they played the game, they can be distinguished as coaches.
I don't know of ANY of the players that either DiMaggio & Williams may have coached in hitting so there's really no way to deny or confirm there success with the players. This much I think is VERY obvious. If I was having trouble with my hitting & two hitting coaches were standing in front of me that I thought could help, lets say Tony Gwynn & Kevin Long see if you could guss which one I'd lean toward.
...how many of these guys are recognizable? http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/List_of_current_Major_League_Baseball_coaching_staffs
...well,if that's the case, like tote pointed out, you'd have to be a college player because that's where Gwynn is. ...DiMaggio barely lasted a year as coach...and Williams in general was not liked by most of his players.
Very few, which makes my point, why pay these buba's if all they can do is say things like, DOH! maybe you could choke up a little more, Maybe point your left foot a little more out. Maybe you shouldn't hold the bat so tight. And yes I do understand how even some Great hitters could be bad coaches (sought of) but they'd be a whole lot more helpful that most of the goober's known as hitting coaches today.
...rick, they're not goobers and they do help at times...do you think they should do away with coaches?...of course not. ...their salary is really irrelevant because again, they simply don't make that much when compared to managers and players. Plain and simple, they are there to offer advice and assistance if/when a player needs it...just as with pitching coaches, they go over film together and try to spot something that will help them improve...they take that info to the batting cage and practice it...but when the games starts it's ultimately up to the hitter to apply it. ...I say it again, hitting coaches alone don't turn a poor or mediocre hitter into a very good one...and hitting coaches don't turn good.great hitters into bad ones because if a hitter is in a groove you don't try to fix something that is not broken.
To put an end to this ping pong match I'll just say this, if I was a career 280 hitter & started to slump where I was hitting in the 220s over a month, I think I'd have a whole lot better chance of getting out of that slump taking advise from Rod Carew then I would from Bobby Mechum.
...what does Bobby Meachum have to do with this...you're comparing Long to Meacum?...quite a stretch don't you think? ...how about we stay in the real world and stay in the present...Carew is not a hitting coach and neither is Meachum...Long is one of the most highly respected hitting coaches in the game but for some unexplained reason you don't like him and you don't think he deserves the money he receives. As far as any tangible evidence that he has ruined anyone as a hitter or grounds for disliking him, I don't see any. ...if clubs did not truly believe that hitting/pitching coaches were necessary they would not employ them, period. ...and I don't recall any of these guys as having stellar hitting careers; http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...cle_641950d7-da2b-5c12-8711-9ecc16f65a2c.html
1st off I never said that Long has ruined anyone's career but I also don't know of anyone he's actually helped either. I mean hell, Jeter has so much confedence in Long that he had to go to Dembo to get him out of his slump. Secondly Carew WAS a hitting coach. And okay maybe comparing Mechum to Long who is a one of the most HIGHLY RESPECTED COACHES IN THE GAME, although I've never actually heard anyone say that was a LITTLE bit of a stretch even thought as I said, Jeter had to go else where for help & I think Grandy's strikeouts have actually gone up EVERY year since 2010 & Teixiera, well, we won't even go there. But okay I'll take your word that he's WELL RESPECTED.
...you don't have to take my word, that's why I provided the link that backs up what I said. And yes, Carew was a hitting coach but again,like I said, he has nothing to do with NOW. And yes, comparing Long to Meachum is a stretch. ...and no, Jeter did not "have to go elsewhere for help". I must have heard that story told incorrectly at least 10 times...The reason DJ went to his old mentor was simply because he was available at the time DJ was on the DL and Long was Not. (Jeter was on the DL at the time and was obviously not traveling with the team at the time...Long was with the team)...you can look it up if you like.
...here; http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news...ontent_id=23575758&vkey=news_nyy&ymd=20110822 ...now please stop acting as if Jeter shunned Long in favor of Denbo because that's not how it went down at all.
I could have stopped reading just after seeing the head line of that story but I kept reading then after3/4 of the way down I stopped after reading so much of how Denbo really improved Jeter. Thanks, That was a VERY favorable story on Denbo & how much of a help he was to Jeter.
...uhh, that's why I posted it, rick. ...it's pretty much common knowledge that Denbo helped DJ while he was on the DL...but that's not the argument because it's not as you implied, a situation where Jeter was displeased with Long and because of that, instead sought out Denbo. Like I said, that's not at all the way it went down.
Yeah it was just a good thing that Denbo was available otherwise, well....................................who knows?
I recall Dimaggio as Bench Coach for Oakland in 68. IMO, Pinella was perhaps one of the better Yankee Mgr.'s who pointed out hitting hitches or flaws in Mattingly's at bats. As well as pointing out other players flaws when they were in a slump. An old SI article said as much, from Donnie BB. Gwynn, I'm glad he was pointed out, as he was his own best hitting coach. So many in the 80s turned to Video to study their own swings. Tony was amongst the best hitting coaches, he ever saw himself. Knowing his swing, stance better than any one else. Tony also once said In SI, some of his best hits were balls, low or a bit outside. 59 is right, hitting coaches in general (less a very small select sample size) are often a waste of money to a team. Only the greats seem to succeed. Even then Mantle could not tell anyone how he played at his level. The Mick said as much in one of his many bios. One reason utility players often become good coaches, (see *** below), ie. Tony LaRussa, was a INF-UTL player on the 68 A's, which Dimaggio was bench coach for. I won't go there with Lasorda, as I never could tolerate the blithering fool. Other's can give him credit, you won't hear it from me tho'. Why because Tommy couldn't come close to the legacy Alston left behind. He wasn't a hitting coach either. Neither was Herzog or Cox. (tho they made good Manager's, and (***they were students of the game, riding the bench more than playing in the Majors). What blows my mind is seeing Jack Clark and/or McGwire as hitting coaches, what are they going to teach anyone, how to swing for the fences?
Rod Carew is the BOMB!!! Rod gave public one on one hitting instruction to my oldest son, and many other kids, in 86. He offered 8 meetings once a week for 2 months. ($50 for a 1 hour lesson). His training included video breakdown of each kids swing, stance, eyes, stride, wrists, extension of arms, place hitting & hitting the ball on the sweet spot, Pulling the ball or sending it the other way, wherever it was pitched basically. Inside out a swing, to keep fielders off guard, (when they know your hitting the ball where its pitched). When a kid completed Carew's course, the kid was given a personalized autographed pic of themselves with the legend himself...what a thrill for a kid. Actually, I think my son was to young to realize he was learning from one of the games best swat hitters, I think I was more in awe simply watching it all. Carew and Gwynn are exceptions to the rule.
