Ukraine conflict

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Eastoff, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. GriLtCheeZ

    GriLtCheeZ "Well, I'm not lookin' for trouble."

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Gleaming the Cubicle
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
  2. DaLincolnJones

    DaLincolnJones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    8,319
    Likes Received:
    1,885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Silly is all of the bullshit and bluster from the white house. So explain to me how this is so different? After 300 years, Scotland wants to be independent from the EU....guess we should sanction them..pffftt
     
  3. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,835
    Likes Received:
    55,492
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This is a little different than Afghanistan or Iraq. We weren't trying to annex those nations. Russia intends to make Crimea and probably Ukraine a part of their country again. It would be the equivalent of the US going down into Mexico to "stop the drug trade" and then making Mexico a permanent part of our country.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Or equivalent to the USA confiscating the land of the Hawaiians, ending their government, and when enough white people can vote it a state it was annexed.
     
  5. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,725
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    dental malpractice claims adjuster
    Location:
    Portland area
    Obama really doesn't have a lot of options- sanctions, freezing money, expulsion from G3 (or whatever the hell it's called) and strengthening ties with other former Soviet countries is about all he can do.
     
  6. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    67,852
    Likes Received:
    66,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    exactly!
     
  7. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    67,852
    Likes Received:
    66,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the silliest of all the cold wars is the Taiwan-China standoff where we totally play both sides against the middle.
     
  8. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    16,040
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tualatin
    I agree that there are a lot of similarities. But there is also some big differences. Scotland, to my knowledge, was not a severely corrupt country like Ukraine was before their revolution. Ukraine is a major oil export stop for Russia to Europe, so I understand why Putin is worried. There are a lot of differences in their heritage of Crimea much like Scotland has a very different heritage from Britain. It is not an easy issue; You and Riverman both raise good point about our own past.
     
  9. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    16,040
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tualatin
    This is a very good equivalence. It was about 55 years ago, that it joined the US. How far back to we consider American actions relevant to current decision making?
     
  10. GriLtCheeZ

    GriLtCheeZ "Well, I'm not lookin' for trouble."

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Gleaming the Cubicle
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Independent from the "EU" after 300 years? You know the EU isn't even remotely close to that old, and besides that, they are not voting on weather to "leave the EU", but on whether or not Scotland is to remain a part of the United Kingdom or become an independent country. Actually Scotland might have to adopt the Euro if they leave the UK.

    Silly.
     
  11. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    21,370
    Likes Received:
    7,281
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Life is good!
    Location:
    Near Bandon Oregon
    uh, Hawaii is only about 25% white. Some one else must of wanted this tort you suggest.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Forever. Back to the beginning of time.
     
  13. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,835
    Likes Received:
    55,492
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Well obviously we should just keep our mouth shut, right?

    The British can't talk either.

    Or the French.

    Or the Spanish.

    Or the Germans.

    Or the Italians.

    Or the Greeks.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    What do you know? Only 25% of the people were allowed to vote.
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    It's none of our business.

    Our whole history is about invading and taking land. Be it from the Indians or Mexicans or Eskimos.
     
  16. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    16,040
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tualatin
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Ron Paul is the man.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...e-russia-ron-paul-editorials-debates/6544163/

    Ron Paul: Crimea secedes. So what?

    Residents of Crimea voted over the weekend on whether they would remain an autonomous region of Ukraine or join the Russian Federation. In so doing, they joined a number of countries and regions — including recently Scotland, Catalonia and Venice — that are seeking to secede from what they view as unresponsive or oppressive governments.

    These latter three are proceeding without much notice, while the overwhelming Crimea vote to secede from Ukraine has incensed U.S. and European Union officials, and has led NATO closer to conflict with Russia than since the height of the Cold War.

    What's the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

    Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

    Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

    Perhaps the U.S. officials who supported the unconstitutional overthrow of Ukraine's government should refocus their energies on learning our own Constitution, which does not allow the U.S. government to overthrow governments overseas or send a billion dollars to bail out Ukraine and its international creditors.

    Though the Obama administration has applied some minimal sanctions on selected Russian and Crimean individuals, neither the U.S. nor the EU can afford significant sanctions against Russia. Global trade provides too much economic benefit to both sides.

    Indeed, international markets rallied on news that the sanctions would be thus far minimal. They understand that trade and economic engagement are the surest roads to peace and prosperity. Let's hope governments will follow their lead.

    Former representative Ron Paul of Texas is host of the new RonPaulChannel.com.
     
  18. DaLincolnJones

    DaLincolnJones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    8,319
    Likes Received:
    1,885
    Trophy Points:
    113
  19. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    16,040
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tualatin
  20. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    16,040
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tualatin
    What are you saying about Americans?! ;]
     

Share This Page