...splitting hairs...the 1996 team was designed by Bob Watson who was GM from 1995-1998. ...and Michael had nothing to do with the 1996 additions of Tino Martinez, Jeff Nelson, David Cone, Tim Raines, Mariano Duncan, Dwight Gooden, Nick Johnson, Grahan Lloyd, Charlie Hayes, Bob Wickman, Luis Soho, Cecil Fielder, et al.
Let's not forget who the players credit the most. It was Torre that gave Mo the confidence and time to adjust to the closer role...for example.
...by that time Mo had already proven he was a much better reliever than a starter...when Wetteland became a FA in 1997, giving the job to Mo was a no-brainer.
I also think it was Torre that had enough faith in both Jeter & Posada to give them there full time positions. Where they both excelled. I really can't say how well the core 4 would have progressed without Torre's guidence.
...did the core 4 digress when Torre left?...and from what I remember, about 90% of the posters at that time wanted Torre gone. Now all of a sudden, he's God-like again...lol.
Hell compared to what we have now Bob Uecker would be god like. And seriously by the time Torre left the core 4 were pretty much already established wouldn't you think?
...yes, the core 4 would all have been total failures without Torre...give me a fucking break. ...yes, Girardi has ruined countless careers of young players already...rolls eyes. Has he been given ANYTHING to work with that can compare to Mo, Jeter, Posada, and Pettitte?...didn't think so. And do you have any idea where the term "clueless Joe" came from?
..."no matter how successful"?...really?...that makes absolutely no sense....and exactly how long is this supposed "shelf life" regardless of how successful they are? ...Torre's last 4 years were not "successful". You don't think the PS failures of '01 and '04 had anything to do with him being let go?
I have to agree that Torre's last few years pretty much sucked & come to think of it, so has Girardi's. You see, I can be fair.
...I'll ask again...was Girardi given ANYTHING to work with that can compare to a young Mo, Jeter, Posada, and Petttitte?
Mo's cutter didn't become a staple until '98. Catcher and SS had been transient positions for a long time. Torre took pressure off these kids and gave them the opportunity to develop. That wasn't happening under Buck's my way or the highway micromanagement regime. No one is saying Torre or Girardi combined is the baseball intellect of Schowalter...but they were far superior at management skills. The latter is critically important. I think Buck's time as a TV analyst gave him some excellent perspective that he obviously is applying now.
Sure it makes sense. Simply put nobody lasts forever. I wouldn't say 2001. If Mo makes the save it's four titles in a row. 2004 followed by allowing that bug shit to take place in Cleveland was it.
Hey Jeter's had a couple of good years under Girardi & Mo had some of his best years under Girardi. And also Girardi has had a PRIME Robinson Cano & CC Sabathia. Just saying. But enough of this I'm trying to concentrate on this marbles tornament.
...^^^that's not what you said...you said "regardless of how successful" they are. And the reason he was let go was because of his failures, not his successes. ...why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?
...and Torre is not included among "any manager"? Yes or No?...and is there a specific # of years of this supposed "shelf life"? ...and again, "why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?"
They all have an expiration date. It's just a matter of when. Joe Torre, Al Arbor, Tom Landry, Job Gibbs....everybody.
