Now I have to hear a year of this worthless Derek Jeter crap

Just trying to provide you some info that it isn't just 31 and I. Sorry my link isnt more up to date

With that I am going to tap out. People dont like my opinion so they make fun of my links and toss insults. All good. I am a big baseball fan and we all have our opinions. I will stick to Ranger talk from now on as Jeter hits too close to home for most on here and that is fine.

For the record, if you want to know a great hitter look at Tony Gwynn....RIP. Also a 20 year career, career .340 avg. 7 batting titles. Flirted with .400. That is a great hitter.

 

As least you bring a bit more to the table than your little pal 31. I mean that kid is a flat out Jeter hater & doesn't credit Jeter with anything.

 

Yep. He was a great hitter but he had a big head and was fat. Also, the enquirer voted him the best player on a team that was a consistent cellar dweller playing in front of a 100 fans a game and no one cared about. Only kidding Dis LOL. I agree its time to talk ranger hockey and can't wait till next week to see what our 3 arbitration guys end up getting and what if any kids make the team come training camp. Still time for a big trade Glenn just don't trade my Staal. If Brassard is really sniffing 5.5 he's my candidate to go in a package for a 1 center

 

LOL All good MRML - I agree on Brassard. WTF

But we have Lombardi so all good....

 

Wow I go on vacation and all hell breaks loose...

For the record I am a lifelong yankee fan, growing up I loved watching mickey rivers and willie randolph, oscar gamble, rickey Henderson dave windfield, donnie baseball, mike stanley bernie williams, etc...

Derek Jeter is a icon in the sense that he played a demanding position in the worlds largest pressure cooker, nyc.

His stats, imo, are as much talent that jeter possesses but for the talent around him. Batting leadoff and #2 with talent around that was more dangerous played into jeters strong points, being patient and going the other way. Can jeter be the lead dog on a talentless team, again in my opinion, NO. Too many years he was on a team with fellow all stars that can carry the load.

This is not to take anything away from his career, you have to be a great to stay in the game at ss and hit over 300 lifetime. You cant take that away from him, you cant be just average and get 3,400 hits. That's all him.

His greatness is a product of the media, and him being drafted at the right time.
If he was drafted by the yankees 5 years earlier, steinbrenner would have shipped him off and he would he a average guy.

He was drafted during the core 5.

 

bigd, your perception of #2 is so far off i don't know where to begin...

all i can say is for his 3000th hit, he hits a dinger off the best in the business, at an advanced age, with the whole world watching... jeter's intangibles are what made him who he is, not many players have them!

 

What part is off base?

 

Nothing was off base. Your post was spot on. When people don't like stats pointed at them they talk about "intangibles" which can't really be quantified.


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He also played in more post season games then any player in baseball history Messiah. BTW I always thought Bernie Williams was the true post season star. Most doubles runs scored, home runs and RBIs ever in post season. Jeter was great too. Especially hitting singles in the playoffs


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no one is saying he wasn't/isn't a great player. He is just not the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why is that so difficult for fans to understand.

Look at Barry Larkin, his stats (average, OBS, SLG and OPS) are all very similar to Jeter. Yes Jeter has over 1k more hits..he also has over 3k at bats.
Barry Larkin outside of a couple of seasons did not play with nearly the same lineup as Derek Jeter did. Barry Larkin is a HOFer and so will Derek Jeter.

Derek Jeter is not in the same breath as Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantel, Willie Mays as far as all around players, yet here in NYC the fan base considers him God like.

 

Al please don't fall in with the others that are comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a singles hitter to HR & RBI hitters. Of course there numbers are going to be higher. You're also comparing a SS to outfielders. Like I said, apples to oranges.

 

Barry Larkin was a fellow SS though

 

I was looking at your last line where you said that Jeter is not in the same breath as the big HR RBI guys you mentioned. And you're right, differant type of hitter & a more demanding position. You need to compare his numbers to any shortstop not named Banks, Ripkin or A Rod (HR hitters). Because no one is saying that he's among the best players ever. Most if not all of us are saying his over all numbers puts him just behind Wagner as greatest SS ever.

 

Ok, let me ask you this...do you put Ichiro in the same class as the before mentioned all time great outfielders? Ichiro's all around game was just as impressive as Jeter's. Way better defense, speed galore. high average, stolen bases....

When you look at the Yankee championship teams...

1996
Bernie Williams had a better year
Wade Boggs had a similar year
Tino Martinez had a very good year
Paul O'neill had a good year

I think it is fair to say when you look at the 96 lineup, Jeter is not the first person you are most afraid of (no disrespect again he was a great player but look at the stats of the players in the surrounding lineup)

1998
Bernie Williams had a better year than Jeter
Paul O'Neil had as good a season as Jeter
hell even Scott Brosius hit 300 on that team

So yes jeter and his 324 average was very good, but he was THE guy on that team.

1999
This was the year you could....possibly...say Jeter carried the team with his 349 aerage and 24 hrs and 102 rbi's
Bernie wiliams hit 342, 25 and 115


2000
Same could be said with 2000 as Jeter had a 339 average with 15 and 73
Bernie's average dipped that year to 307 with 30 and 121...his RBI production can be attributed to Jeter scoring 119 times
Jorge Posada and his 28/86 with 35 doubles (more than jeter) had a terrific season and led the team in ops

2009
Jeter and his 334 led the team but it may be safe to say a Roided up ARod was more feared
Cano with his 320 and 25 hrs sure helped

So yes Jeter was a great player, but in each of the WS seasons did he carry the team? No...he was as much a part of the success as others in the lineup.

 

have I also mentioned that my favorite player of all time is Bernie Williams

 

Ichiro and Jeter are great comparisons offensively. Great singles hitters. Ichiro won't go down as am all time great and I'm a Mariners fan. Obviously Jeter played a much harder position so that's the main difference. Also Ichiro hit .350-.370 in his prime AND he was ELITE defensively at his position in his prime unlike Jeter.


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Disturbed,I'm going to be completely fair here I would take Ichiro's first 10 seasons (a fucking amazing 10 straight 200 hit seasons) over every & any great singles hitters, Carew, Gwynn, Boggs Jeter etc. And it is my opinion that had Ichiro started his career here in the states he would have shattered Rose's hit record. So yes he & Jeter are great comparisons. Both 1st ballot HOFers IMO.

Al I'm not trying to down play your point but again Williams, O'Neill, Posada were middle of the order guys & had more power so again the power #s are going to be better then Jeter's when it comes to HRs & RBI. So to be fair we have to look at the other stats like OBP, OPS, hitting with RISP etc, which I haven't done. Just saying.

 

Yeah Ichiro had an amazing 10 year run for sure. I just happen to think singles are very overrated.


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Look at it this way, if it weren't for those singles there would be a lot more solo HRs. Those singles are just non HR hitters doing there jobs for the big boppers.