Oregon Ballot Measure 88

Maybe not?

 

I do not understand a Yes vote unless you simply like to vote the wrong way, then you have the main problem with direct democracy, it gives everyone the chance to vote the wrong way.

When I go to Mexico, guess what? I drive using my Oregon drivers license quite legally. Mexicans can also drive legally using Mexican drivers license here in Oregon. Now why in the hell do they need an Oregon drivers license? Only one answer to that question. Obfuscate the fact that you have over stayed the legal time limit in this country. I don't know of a good reason to vote for obfuscation, it is not a band aid.

 

Well I see both sides, but one thing that pisses me off is the bullshit racist tag being thrown around for stuff like this. There are racist people and activities, but if we overuse the term on people making a normal decision than it takes teeth out of the term where it's actually deserved.

As far as the actual measure, my first impulse is to say no, illegals can't get legal licenses here, it's just not right. But looking a little deeper in the real world, one with millions of illegals already here, it makes the streets safer and allows the illegals to get insurance too, so when I get into an accident with them I can get recompensed. Or perhaps one of them learns the signs and laws and doesn't get into a fatal crash with my family. Ok, on second thought, I'm now leaning yes.

 

Question, why isnt it right and what harm would it actually do? I am still looking for a solid reason to say no on this and cant find one...... Although Mar's point that I am just plain wrong and that he can drive legally in Mexico is very persuasive.

For the record I think its a bullshit law that wont fix anything. Most illegals wont bother because they dont care, but for the few that do care there should be options so they dont have to break the broken laws. My issue with the opposition is that their main stance is that illegals shouldnt be here anyway so lets not make it any easier for them. That argument doesnt really stand in reality though and creates a destructive denial mentality.

 

Well, playing devils advocate, I have a few points.

1) you yourself just admitted the law won't really help, so why add a law with no real upside.

2) drivers licenses are used for more than just driving, they are a form of ID used for finding places to live, flying, jobs, and give the illegals a means to appear legal. Taking that away will make it more difficult in America to be an illegal and more likely they get caught and sent back whenst they came.

3) if this not given of licenses were used as a template to stop giving other privileges, then perhaps America wouldn't seem like such a great place to come. Imagine if all rights we withdrawn, no healthcare, no education, no assistance whatsoever, do you think the illegals would (1) stop coming and (2) be easier to catch and transfer.


Now I don't think that's realistic, and it's mean to human beings, so would not be in favor, but that doesn't mean the reasons don't exist.

 

Good point I think you hit on the crux of the overall argument. If you feel illegal immigrants are a burden on our society and have no real value then I guess I can see those points. To a certain degree there is credence to that argument but my feeling is that most of the burden they place on us is because of our own backwards system that is made to exploit them. Ive also spent a lot of time traveling, even doing immigrant type jobs in New Zealand as an apple picker in my youth (Motueka in da house eh bro). That was fun stuff, but I was actually issues a worker id number, which was a separate system to their own social security number system. No farmer would hire me without this because of harsh penalties and I paid taxes on my income. I also went to the hospital a few times for very little cost. I was treated well and welcomed by their country, but I did have a limit to my stay and because of their system it was easier to keep track of me and make sure I left. They all laughed at us openly and often.

 

You forgot, most already have a drivers license with their Mexican address on it. Giving them and Oregon license just gives them a documented address here, it doesn't make them anymore legal.

 

Do they? And if so why cant they just use that?

 

As I said, I see both sides. Personally I come down on the side of wanting those illegal immigrants to fit into the American puzzle that raises everybody up. If they are the types of people who really want to participate and be a positive while here, then they would be the types who would go and learn the laws, get a license and get insured. So in the end, voting no only harms those who are trying to be law abiding and a benefit in the US. Voting no will have zero effect on the illegal immigrants who aren't trying to be something better while here. So it hurts the "good" immigrants and has no effect on the "bad" immigrants.

 

You know, I think mine do also. I remember the stories about the days spent in Eilis Island.
I think it was about nine days but the stories make it seem like a year.

 

It does not harm a "good" immigrant. They are able to get a drivers license without changing a thing.

 

I had to renew this year. They wanted to see my DD214 also beside my Passport. That was new for me, I think, at least I don't remember that before.