My biggest gripe with Martin is his durability. If the price was right, I don't think I would pass him up though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This seems like an odd comment. You want diversity, then argue Martin doesn't fit. What other player(s) can get to the foul line on the bench? If you want just a shooter, that's keeping us "one dimensional". Martin can slash, mid range and hit the three. He's also very good at getting to the line to boot. None of our bench players are even close to that right now.
That was the bottom five. So sure he was the most likely to pass out of the other four who rank worse than him. He slows the offense down just about as bad as anyone in the NBA. That in itself should be enough to let you know it's not a fit. But then you start looking at the way he scores and you can tell why his efficiency has taken a dip both times he's been in the playoffs, and furthermore why playoff hopefuls don't try to retain him. It's the same reason he does well in Minnesota. Yes he can score and gets to the FT line, but at the cost of fluent team offense. In my opinion that is more than enough reason to not trade for him. Look at some of these highlights and tell me if you think this looks like something the Blazers actually want as a part of their offense. Spoiler: KMart Highlights We want players who make that extra pass to the open three point shooter, not players who take a low percentage fade away mid range jumper. Especially when they aren't dead on from there. I wish I could find a video of his play that doesn't include made shots only. However it's not a very good sign when you find things wrong with highlights.
I meant more along the lines of what we would have to give up to get him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not a lot of PER = 21.2 players that make less that are actually available. Yeah, that's a small sample size. He's been more like a PER = 16.5 player for the last three years. Still $7 million a year for a guy who puts up over 21 PTS/36 is pretty damn cheap. And given that he TOTALLY does not fit in with MIN's rebuilding plan, I'm sure we could get him on the cheap. BNM
Well I personally think Minny would benefit with a CJ and T. Rob type deal. They are young and perfect for a rebuild.
He's done well wherever he's played, not just MIN. He was great in SAC and HOU and he had a great season coming off the bench for an OKC team that won 60 games in the EXACT same type of roll he'd fill for us. EVERYONE'S scoring efficiency goes down in the playoffs. You're playing a VERY good team every night. The defensive intensity is ramped up and the scoring goes down. He actually had a pretty decent post season for the Thunder two years ago. They let him go for the same reason they gave away James Harden and Jeff Green - cheap ass owners didn't want to pay him. And honestly, I don't care HOW he scores, only THAT he scores. He's NOT going to be taking shots away from Dame and LaMarcus, he's going to give us a viable scoring threat when those guys are out of the game. We NEED more bench scoring. Quibbling about HOW we get it seems to be missing the big picture. Kevin Martin would improve our bench scoring a LOT. BNM
Also, you do realize the guy you have a hard on for, Wilson Chandler has a lower AST% than his teammate and legendary black hole J.J. Hickson, right? Talk about where the ball goes to die... BNM
Kevin Martin is all offense, we all get that but his D is AWFUL... His best DRtg was 107 (05-06/12-13) His career average for DRtg 111...
And we NEED scoring off the bench. It's not like he's going to asked to lock down LeBron and KD... BNM
BTW, DRtg is a terrible stat for determining individual defensive ability. Tayshaun Prince hasn't had a DRtg below 108 in 8 years. For the last seven years: Tayshaun Prince DRtg: 110 113 115 109 108 108 108 BNM
Yes we need scoring but what good is getting 8-10 points from a player if he is giving up 10-12 in the same game? Wilson Chandler isn't any better a defender either... I rather we focus on Afflalo (great bench player but also insurance in case of a Wes leaving situation)
Difference is Prince would basically cost us nothing, Martin is gonna take a prospect and future cap space.
I'd agree, if that was true, but it's not. Go look at Martin's OWN vs. OPP production on 82games.com for the last three seasons. I'm sure it's even better if you go back further to when Martin was more of a big time scorer in HOU and SAC, but his recent performance is more relevant. He's always out produces his OPP, usually a very substantial amount. His defense may not be great, but his offense is much better, he's a always a Net +. He's not the SG version of J.J. Hickson. If we look at scoring alone, he consistently outscores his OPP no matter who he's played for, not matter his role (starter or bench) or position (SG or SF). 2014-15 SG Net PTS/48: +10.4 SF Net PTS/48: insufficient sample size 2013-14 SG Net PTS/48: +8.6 SF Net PTS/48: +5.2 2012-13 SG Net PTS/48: +1.5 SF Net PTS/48: +6.5 If you look at PER, you can see he also consistently outproduces his OPP overall: 2014-15 OWN: 22.9 OPP: 14.4 NET: +8.5 2013-14 OWN: 17.1 OPP: 12.8 NET: +4.3 2012-13 OWN: 16.8 OPP: 13.6 NET: +3.3 BNM
To your earlier point I think it is fair to say he would greatly improve our bench scoring, but I still think it comes at too great a cost. Looking at last years stats Chandler (a 2 way player) had a similar AST%(9.3) as Martin (9.0) but he arguably did it with less talent around him. I also honestly feel it's easy to get lost in that statistic. An assist takes more than passing the ball, and correct me if I'm wrong but it's calculated by factoring in the players shots attempted. I'd rather have the guy who makes passes than the guy who gets asssists, because the more passes the player makes the more opportunity for assists. In his 8 games this season Martin was only passing the ball 23.8 times per game. That is a very low number, in fact it's Low enough to put him at 6th worst on the list for players averaging >=30 minutes per game. I won't argue that Chandler is monumentally better, that is not true. However over the course of 30 games Chandler has maintained 30 passes per game in roughly the same amount of time played.
I'm not opposed to pick up Prince on the cheap. We would have to cut someone (Barton or Claver) to make a roster spot, and he doesn't give us nearly the same scoring threat as Martin, but he's a playoff tested veteran. On the other hand, it's not like we'd be mortgaging our future giving up TRob and one of Barton or Claver to get Martin. BNM
You do realize Martin played in MIN last year. You can argue he had more overall talent around him but he had fewer guys who could actually shoot. Ricky Rubio almost exclusively ran the offense, but can't hit a shot to save his life. It's not like Martin had a lot of assist opportunities playing with that bunch. But again, I'm not looking for a playmaker off the bench. That's why we replaced Mo with Blakey. So, now let's give Blake another shooter he can set up and get the ball to in the right spots. Blake will make Martin better, but Martin will also make Blake better at what he's supposed to do - create for others. What I am looking for is bench scoring. I think that's our most glaring need and Martin would address that need better than anyone else who is likely available. BNM
