U.S. House passes estate tax repeal despite veto threat

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    yet they understood , Hamilton seemed to, that when the wealth of the nation became such, and, the vigor of the government became such, like
    Britain's, that wealth taxation becomes more tolerable and, practical. the indirect taxation kind.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    No. They absolutely wanted to tax commerce. The whole fed 12 is about this. The idea is to tax transactions to raise a % of GDP. That's exactly what is described.

    The constitution forbade direct taxation by the Feds. Very specifically, they went out of they way to record it that way.

    If you randomly select a word here, a word there, you can bend it to your will.

    It simply is disingenuous to ignore 99% of the text that does not at all say what you want.
     
  3. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    I have never said and even stated that they didn't preferred to tax commerce, yet I am not picking a word here and there but quoting nearly an entire paragraph of the document that you seem to deny is even a part of it. they left it their for future flexability in my opinion. do you deny the literal quotation as presented?
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The federalist papers were written to encourage the ratification of the constitution, not to shoot it down via debate.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._12

    In Federalist 12, Hamilton argues that the formation of the union will lead to greater wealth for the states. The government, by establishing currency, would encourage industry and all Americans would enjoy the benefits. Hamilton continues by arguing that there is no rivalry between commerce and agriculture - rather each benefits when the other prospers. Taxes should be levied on commerce and the union will be much more efficient than the states at collecting revenue. In fact, the article predicts that revenue will triple with the new federal government administering tax collection. The states have been unable to establish an adequate way to collect taxes. Hamilton claims that direct taxation is not a reality for the new government. Instead, taxes should be levied on imports and exports, mainly on imports. Hamilton also points out that if the federal government administers tax collection instead of leaving the task to states, it will reduce the amount of resources needed to ensure that the tax is not being evaded. It will be much easier for the federal government to protect one border - the Atlantic coast - than it would be for each state to protect its borders. A few ships stationed outside of Americas ports would ensure the collection of duties. Hamilton concludes that funding the government is essential and if Americans fail to do so then the Revolution itself will have been in vain.
     
  6. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    yet the practical needs of a more vigorous and opulent nation in the future is also adressed
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    No, it is dismissed. In England, the king granted and took away lands by edict, and taxed the lords who were given the lands. That's not at all what was envisioned here.

    The idea was for the Feds to tax the states proportional to their population. The states had to come up with the money however they saw fit, including an income tax if they so chose. The Feds' taxation was to be import duties, which encourages people to buy domestic goods.

    To this day, the income tax is a serious breach of our Liberty (privacy) and contrary to the 3rd, 4th, and 5th amendments. The government can raise revenue without spying on my income, sources of income, or what I spend. States do it via sales tax and gas tax, etc.
     
  8. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    It seems, in reading this thread, that:

    Giving your (already multiply-taxed) inheritance to your kids without tax => kids are freeloading, get-a-job, whiners.
    Giving your (already multiply-taxed) inheritance to Lockheed, or the Muslim Brotherhood, or to a health insurance company = ...

    :dunno:
     
  9. 3RA1N1AC

    3RA1N1AC 00110110 00111001

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    Lockheed is the Muslim Brotherhood
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Lockheed is by definition a product of big government.
     
  11. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    No government has ever survived such an honor system, as it seems very few wealthy people have any honor at all.
     
  12. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    The Capital Gains Tax applies equally to all races, sexes, and occupations, except religious ones which of course always get a free ride on the taxpayer backs of atheists.

    Why do you want to protect a tiny special interest group?
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't want to protect any group, but treat them exactly the same. You're the one in favor of targeting 5400 families a year.
     
  14. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Denny's motive is that he thinks he's one of the 5400 families per year who pay the very top rate of inheritance tax. This means that Denny is worth at least $50 million.

    I don't believe the number 5400, anyway. The top rate is easy to beat. You just diversify your investments into a shell game. The very rich hire accountants and lawyers to do this.

    Anyway, realize that anyone arguing for the very rich is either very rich, a paid representative (e.g. a Republican legislator), or a religious moron who is unable to coherently think out issues.
     
  15. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Posts immediately following your Post #14 are written as if you stated "$2 millions," not "$millions." You have the power to edit without it showing, right? I think you did. Anyway, my point still stands. A 7% inheritance tax on realized windfall business property is a small price, easily paid by a going concern.

    I showed that the tax is at most half a million, not $2M, on a $7M farm. Check with your siblings whether they agree with your idealism. If even one wants the farm sold, it will be, unless you pay him his share. So if you have one sibling, you'll have to instantly find half of $7M to pay him, if you want to own the farm. Finding the small inheritance tax of at most a half-million will be the least of your concerns.

    --signed, someone who lost his parents' large isolated family home on a lake, with 1 acre, well, dock, and 40 years of memories, because the evil government forced a sale, then to boot, transferred $700,000 from the siblings who had delayed sale, to the one who wanted the sale, due to the home's sale price temporarily dropping in the 2007 depression, with the government refusing to postpone sale until house prices went back up.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I expect to pass $0 on to anyone but my wife. I hope to spend everything I've made and enjoy it before the end.

    Unlike you, I didn't quibble. $5M isn't enough, as honkicracker said.
     
  17. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    That's all you got?

    (as a comeback answer, not as in net worth)
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Well, what's to answer but your uneducated guess?
     
  19. 3RA1N1AC

    3RA1N1AC 00110110 00111001

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    You don't have to be religious to be a moron.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Only a moron loses his family estate and is happy about it.
     

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