"more pace"

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by _GB, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Might this season just be a bump in the road...a transition from Thibs-ball to Hoiball?

    Time will tell, but I hope so.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ak-ball-movement-spt-0226-20160225-story.html
     
  2. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    All the team has to do is get rid of Derrick Rose and Jimmy Butler and they will be all set.
     
  3. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I think it's Ewing Theory redux.

    A key to role players playing well is involvement in the offense. I know this from my own experience. I'm a roleplayer and whenever I'm on the court and I naturally perk up when I play with certain guys over others because I know I'll be able to get the ball if I can hit certain spots. It effects how I seek out opportunity.

    I think the same effect is why the team has had "oomph" the past couple games.
     
  4. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Also important to note is that the Bulls have been playing with "more pace" all season long.

    They are currently 11th. Last season they were 20th.

    The offensive efficiency is way down though.

    Last season the Bulls were 10th.

    This season they are 24th.

    Pace is up, offense is way, way worse.

    Way worse.
     
  5. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Whatever it turns out to be, it odes well for the future if Butler can be reintegrated. Transitions are inevitably disruptive.
     
  6. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Another rough loss tonight.

    Sure, there are injuries, but noone considers the Bulls a NBA Championship contender anymore.

    The Paxson-Hoiball era has begun.

    The Bulls do have more pace though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  7. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    48
    An important 'if' indeed.

    We know we aren't good enough to win with our top talent playing iso-ball, and that our bottom talent can play well with the right system, but isn't talented enough to be a winning team based on system alone.

    We don't know how good our team can be if we have our top talent playing in the right system because we haven't seen it yet. We have 30 games to find out.
     
  8. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Talent is paramount in the NBA, but if your talent won't play team basketball, you're the Rockets...or the Rose-Butler-my-turn-your-turn Bulls for that matter. The Bulls have been running some good offense with Rose and Butler out...but they lack the talent to make it consistently winning basketball.

    Hoiberg made a critical error IMO when he so quickly conceded his core basketball principles to keep peace with Rose and Butler. K4E sarcastically (I assume) stated "All the team has to do is get rid of Derrick Rose and Jimmy Butler and they will be all set," but there may be more wisdom in his statement than it would appear. Almost every high level coach knows what makes for good basketball. The trick is to get good and great players to see that what's good for the team is good for them. IMO, to this point, Hoiberg's been too weak in this regard.

    As most of you know, I put a fairly low value on NBA head coaches. There are so few really great ones and what makes the great ones great has little to do with what most fans pay attention to. Currently, there is only one "coach-centered" team in the NBA...the Spurs. IMO, a big reason for their sustained success is that everyone on that team knows that you play the game as Popovich wants it played or you play for another (invariably lesser) team. Popovich is the modern-day Auerbach. Popovich got to be Popovich by the happy coincidence of having two first-ballot HOFers (Robinson and Duncan) who were brought up to be completely unselfish "yessir, coach" kind of players. Now he is an absolute freakin' czar.

    Back to Hoiberg and the Bulls. As much as I like several of the Bulls current players (Rose isn't one of them), the Bulls aren't going to out-talent the league (the way the Heat did) in the foreseeable future. That means that, to have any chance, the whole is going to have to be a lot better than the sum of their parts and this is where total team play, and coaching, is key. The team has invested a lot in Hoiberg. If the team is smart, they'll look long term and give Hoiberg a major say in who stays and goes. If they lack confidence in Hoiberg, it'd be best to fire him today. If they half-ass it, they're doomed.
     
    rosenthall and _GB like this.
  9. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The main asset the Bulls currently have is Jimmy Butler, who is a top 15 in the NBA two way player.

    We saw this very roster can be the 11th most efficient offense in the NBA last season and the VP of Basketball Ops stated disappointment that this roster could not get to the NBA Finals last season.

    The offense and team in general has become worse under Hoiberg. Last year his team in the NCAA was bounced out of the first round of the playoffs and he only managed to make the sweet sixteen 1 time out of 5 seasons.

    Derrick Rose knows enough about NBA Basketball to win the MVP award and lead the Bulls to their lone ECF appearance since MJ. Granted that was before the knee injury.

    Jimmy Butler knows enough about NBA basketball to be a multi time all-star and any title contending team would be more than happy to take him off our hands if there is a Hoiberg / Butler battle.

    Butler is by far the more valuable asset of the two.

    While the team did invest a lot in Hoiberg its not necessarily smart to let him dictate personal. He doesn't have a great track record of meaningful success in the NCAA, if that even matters, and the NBA team he took over is worse off in his first year than the guy coaching the team previously. He very well may be just an average NBA coach. And even an above average NBA coach isn't as valuable as a great player. It may have been yet another bad decision to invest a lot in Hoiberg.

    Anyway, the Bulls are basically irrelevant in the NBA now. Not a title contender. Not bad enough to add talent in the draft. Last season the coach was fired because the VP of Basketball Ops thought this roster could get to the Finals. Quite the turnaround.

    Seems like PaxSkiles is starting up all over again. I'm hearing Hoiberg, a guy without any meaningful accomplishments who has made this team worse in his first season, talk about playing "the right way" while leading an irrelevant team. Starting to read "whole is better than sum of parts" arguments. This is the line of thinking that leads to convincing yourself that Hinrich-Gordon-Deng-Nocioni can be a core of a championship team.

    The pace is higher though.

    I'm not sure if the guys are wearing tons of wearable tech. That was a "big issue" last season have not heard much about any headway on that important front. Given that the Pax-Hoiberg Bulls are NBA irrelevant, I'm not sure anyone cares.
     
    Denny Crane likes this.
  10. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Agreed. His offensive vision looks strong; it may just be a matter of personnel, buy-in from the 'talent,' and consistency:

    The Trib:

     
  11. _GB

    _GB Bulls Fan Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    According to one forecast, only three teams in the entire association have even a double-digit chance of winning the finals. And the third teams chances amount to 1 in 10.

    So...nothing to hugely criticize the Bulls or the FO about there. The leagues best teams have gotten a lot better this season.

    The Bulls, like the rest of the league, need an infusion of talent.



    edit: another forecast. Same results, though teams are different.
    http://predictwise.com/sports/2015-16-nba
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016

Share This Page