Game three Summer league game thread

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/i..._blazers_victor_claver_is_doing_in_offse.html

Why isn't he showing up on the 2013 stats?

 

Okay I found the info on RealGM.

He played in one summer league. 2013

Game 1 (starter) - 5:29 minutes played, 0-1 shooting, zero points, 1 rebound, 2 fouls http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-13/Phoenix-at-Portland/127974

Game 2 DNP (injured I'm guessing) http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-14/LA-Lakers-at-Portland/127981

Game 3 (starter) - 38:09 minutes played, 3-8 shooting, 1-6 from three, 10 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 6 fouls http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-16/Chicago-at-Portland/127993

Game 4 (starter) - 29:50 minutes played, 2-12 shooting, 1-6 from three, 7 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, and 3 steals http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-17/Portland-at-Atlanta/128086

Game 5 (starter) - 21:47 minutes played, 1-3 shooting, 0-0 from three, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 5 fouls http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-18/Portland-at-Phoenix/128088

Game 6 DNP - http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-19/Portland-at-Minnesota/128102

 

23 minutes per game
5.3 ppg
.250 from the field
5+ rpg

 

This was Claver in a nutshell. Couldn't shoot to save his life, not even in summer league as a 24-year old with 7 years playing professionally in Europe and one year in the NBA under his belt.

BNM

 

No, you clearly aren't understanding consistent improvement. Claver was up and down, never consistently up.

Here are five examples of CONSISTENT improvement:

Jake Layman:
2012-13 - FG% = .396
2013-14 - FG% = .401
2014-15 - FG% = .470
2015-16 - FG% = .500

Jake Layman:
2012-13 - 3FG% = .299
2013-14 - 3FG% = .365
2014-15 - 3FG% = .378
2015-16 - 3FG% = .396

Jake Layman:
2012-13 - FT% = .694
2013-14 - FT% = .719
2014-15 - FT% = .752
2015-16 - FT% = .832

Jake Layman:
2012-13 - TS% = .510
2013-14 - TS% = .529
2014-15 - TS% = .589
2015-16 - TS% = .640

Jake Layman:
2012-13 - FG% = .489
2013-14 - FG% = .498
2014-15 - FG% = .544
2015-16 - FG% = .602

Notice how, in all cases, his shooting percentages are consistently improving from year to year.

The numbers you sited for Claver are the exact opposite of consistently improving:

.286, .377, .405, .320, .404, .364

He's down then he's up, oh but wait, he's down again, oh goody he's up again, oh crap, he's down yet again.

If you still don't understand the concept of consistent improvement, try importing the data into an Excel spreadsheet and graphing it. In Layman's case, all the graphs will show a line moving up and to the right. In Claver's case, the graph will look like a toddler trying to write the letter M for the first time.

BNM

 

It's really too bad because he could do a lot of other things.... defend, rebound, pass...... but he couldn't shoot.

 

Yep, and in the NBA, that will get exposed and exploited. Sergio had the exact same problem, as does Rubio.

BNM

 

You're right, he is nothing like Claver because he's shot 2 non layup or 3pt shots and made them in summer league. Because they aren't EXACTLY the same, he doesn't remind me of him. Because Claver improved from start to finish, but not the exact same way Layman did, they aren't similar.

You said he could do what Claver couldn't, shoot. He hasn't so far

 

Reverse racism!

Just because Layman is white, he's now Claver???

 

That and after 3 summer league games his game looks just like Claver's

 

Look at their respective bodies of work at similar ages and tell me Layman hasn't proven he's a better shooter that has shown consistent improvement. You're ignoring the data and just being your usual stubborn, combative self.

One area where they are nothing alike. Layman will be on an NBA roster this year, Claver won't. He had three years on an NBA roster to prove he belonged in the league and failed for the simple reason he couldn't shoot.

BNM

 

What about his game is similar to Claver, other than not being able to hit a three pointer?

 

Always in the right place. Good passer. Has a very high basketball IQ. solid defender.

 

And you are being your usual combative self

Layman hasn't shown the ability, in any sort of NBA environment, that he is a consistent shooter Claver wasn't

And in three years, we may be saying the same about Layman. I'm not saying he won't be better. I'm saying in three summer league games because of his poor 3pt shooting and all of his good intangibles, he reminds me of Claver. Why you want to argue that with shit from college and euroleague is beyond me

 

I don't take much from someone's first summer league. It's their first exposure to NBA basketball (of sorts.)

I look at a dude like Vonleh or Connaughton, who have a full year on a roster under their belt, and I want to see some growth in summer league. I want to see them show some confidence. I want to see some maturity. I'm just not seeing that from Connaughton for the most part. He had a decent run in the last game. But for a dude who is playing in his first SL, I think Layman is showing some very encouraging qualities. Something to be optimistic about.

 

Well, you got me there. How can I possibly continue in the face of the overwhelming evidence you've presented in support of your case? I surrender. You win the internet. Yay you! You da man.

You're 100% correct. Layman's consistent record of improving his shooting every year over a four year college career is completely meaningless and irrelevant. I don't even know why he bothered to play in college, let alone work on improving his shooting. What was the point? It means nothing to you, so it was obviously a huge waste of his time and energy.

And why the fuck did Neil draft him? He IS Victor Claver. Why settle for some cheap, American imitation, when we could have had the real deal? Neil is such a dumb ass. We should have just kept Claver. How many white guys that can't shoot does one team need anyway?

BNM

 

I COMPLETELY agree. I was judging him on his summer league so far. In that summer league so far, his game has reminded me a lot of Claver's. Always in the right spot doing the right thing, but his shot hasn't been falling. I'm just not sure why BNM would want to argue that?

 

I just don't get why you don't see that after 3 summer league games he reminds of Claver? I'm not here saying he'll get better or get worse. After 3 games, his game is similar to what we say in Claver. Smart, always in the right place, making the right play, but not a great shooter other than at the basket.

 

He reminds me a bit of a poor mans Chandler Parsons. Or could become that in a few years. I think he has much better ball handling skills than Claver had, and seems to have a much smoother stride when sprinting. I never thought of Claver to be a successful player on a run and gun team, but Layman seems like he will fit in just fine in something like that. Layman seems much more fluid with his body compared to Claver. Claver seemed awkward to me alot of the time.

 

My standpoint is, who cares? We all throw out comparisons. I thought he reminded me of Gordon Haywood and someone bitch slapped that opinion. It doesn't HAVE to be based on facts at all. It's one person saying that a player reminds them of another player. That is TOTALLY justifiable. You can think whatever you want MM. If you think he reminds you of Claver, you do you. He doesn't really remind me of Claver because I think Layman seems more athletic, but that's just my opinion.

Now if you had come out and said, "He IS Claver. That's his ceiling." Then I guess it would be something to argue about.