SI.com's Top 100 NBA players of 2017

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by SlyPokerDog, Sep 12, 2016.

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  1. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Harden has elite offensive skills no question, but no defense. His lack of defense plus his offensive reliance on the flop and manufactured free throws make him pretty easy to hate. Like others said, if Dame gets downgraded based on his defense, Harden should too. He's way overrated on this list.
     
    BBert, Sep 16, 2016
    #101
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  2. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    two time mvp Steve Nash was a horrible defender
     
    riverman, Sep 16, 2016
    #102
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  3. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Jason Kidd was known as a solid defender... and yet Andre Miller at 4,000 years old dropped 52 points on him in the playoffs.
     
    Natebishop3, Sep 16, 2016
    #103
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  4. Strenuus

    Strenuus Well-Known Member

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    I thought his 50 point game with us was during the season? Not the playoffs... I know it was against the Mavs...
     
    Strenuus, Sep 16, 2016
    #104
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  5. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    You're right. January 30th. Definitely not the playoffs.

     
    Natebishop3, Sep 16, 2016
    #105
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  6. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    Elite offensive skills= wait until the defender puts out a hand and then rise with the ball using his arms to make contact with the defender's arm and draw the foul.

    absolutely elite.
     
    Orion Bailey, Sep 16, 2016
    #106
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Drawing fouls, especially against the opponents' better players, is significant. In foul trouble, they're playing lesser players or the starter is playing a less aggressive to avoid more fouls.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 16, 2016
    #107
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  8. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    I dont disagree its significant. But the skills it requires?... meh..
     
    Orion Bailey, Sep 16, 2016
    #108
  9. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    If it weren't a skill, everyone would be able to do it. The fact that Harden can do something that is so beneficial to his team, and do so significantly better than anyone else in the league, suggests that it is most definitely a skill.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Sep 16, 2016
    #109
  10. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    Meh. Maybe not everyone is doing it because its a bullshit non NBA play?

    Maybe not everyone is doing it because they dont want to build the sloppy habit and then watch the league change things on them?

    I disagree with "Just because no one else is doing it, it must be elite."

    More would probably do it if they got more crappy calls like he does.

    Think about the play in of itself. You really think it takes skills and no one but him can do it?


    I think the bulk of nba fans and players shy away from it because they dont want be known as a flopper or have an asterisk next to their stats like he does in my opinion.

    This is like saying everyone ( most everyone) speeds on the highway, so the ones who dont must have elite skills.

    Sorry.
    What skill does this need? The ONLY thing it really requires to be have a very quick upward motion. That's it.
     
    Orion Bailey, Sep 16, 2016
    #110
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  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The FTA certainly are hugely valuable. You can see how many he has in the stats.

    However he gets them, he gets them.

    I wish our guys drew that many fouls.
     
    Denny Crane, Sep 16, 2016
    #111
  12. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Even if Harden weren't a protected flop master, he still would be a top offensive player in the league. It's just that his game has evolved so far to the dark side, it's hard to remember or even notice.
     
    BBert, Sep 16, 2016
    #112
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  13. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    I do to, but in legit moves to the hoop types of ways.
    I wouldnt be able to maintain my fandom if Dame and CJ sat at the top of the key swinging the ball left to right down low waiting for that hand and then rise for the foul.

    More fouls? certainly, but based off of actual effort, not the lazy mans cheating way.

    We will have to agree to disagree on this one. No one will sway me that this is an elite skill.
    It might be a significant move, but skill, no way.
     
    Orion Bailey, Sep 16, 2016
    #113
  14. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    And this may be true, but he chose to go to the dark side and now his game, his name and his fame take hits because of it.
     
    Orion Bailey, Sep 16, 2016
    #114
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  15. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    Deservedly so. Harden is a joke, IMO, who makes a mockery of the game.
     
    BBert, Sep 16, 2016
    #115
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  16. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    The flop goes way back in basketball history whether we like it or not...Rick Barry, Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson mastered it in their playing days...Sloan taught it to many players he coached...selling it was the art and in a way it's been part of basketball for a long time...I don't like it unless you can't tell it was a flop.
     
    riverman, Sep 16, 2016
    #116
  17. HomerLovesKoolAid

    HomerLovesKoolAid I have a well-known member.

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    I'd like to saw off Raymond Felton's leg and beat Harden to death with it.
     
    HomerLovesKoolAid, Sep 16, 2016
    #117
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  18. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    I would PAY to witness that!
     
    Orion Bailey, Sep 16, 2016
    #118
  19. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    There's a huge difference between the flop and the drawn foul. Yes, Harden flops a lot, but he also draws a huge number of legitimate fouls, and he does so by design. And don't act as though other players don't want and try to do the same--they do, just not as well. It's more than just "a quick upward motion"--it involves deceptively convincing the defender to attempt to stop you in a way you know they can't. Like Dame drawing fouls on his 3 point attempts while coming around a screen. He does it repeatedly, intentionally, and better than anyone else not named Jamal Crawford. It is most definitely a skill.

    And your speeding analogy is simply terrible, ridiculous really.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Sep 16, 2016
    #119
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  20. HomerLovesKoolAid

    HomerLovesKoolAid I have a well-known member.

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    Ok. Well, maybe I should pitch this to a network. Maybe get it on ESPN VII or something.......
     
    HomerLovesKoolAid, Sep 16, 2016
    #120
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