Merged: |0fficial| Trade Deadline

Seriously.

How many more times we gotta say this? No trading picks! Draft is our ONLY option to acquire talent in the next two -three years. We can't be trading those away and throwing in more from the future for what could very realistically be a 3 month rental of a 32 year old (albeit good) player, who is apparently seeking 35 mil + max deals/yr this summer. That is a number we cannot afford to pay him unless we give away a few of our other recent signings. He WILL walk.

A Millsap to POR trade is just not realistic if we want to be smart about our future.

And it better not be us. Have we learned nothing from the Afflalo trade?

 

That someone shouldn't be us. Why on earth would we want to give away two first round draft picks for a guy who doesn't make us good enough to get past the 2nd round (and possibly not even past the 1st round!)? I wouldn't even deal CLE's pick for Millsap. We aren't anywhere close - with or without Millsap - to getting to the WCF, so giving away valuable assets for him would be stupid.

A good case could be made for TOR giving up good value for Millsap, but a good case cannot be made for US giving up any value for him.

 

I threw in offensive because I think Dame is better but if you consider the other 50% of the game, it's tough to see where Dame has so much of an offensive advantage to negate the defensive gap.

Lillard - 26.8 ppg, 4.5 rebs, 6.3 assts, 0.8 stls, 2.7 TOs. Shoots .455 FG%, .355 3Pt% and .893 from the FT line where he gets 7.7 FTA per game.
Butler - 25.5 ppg, 6.8 rebs, 4.5 assts, 1.7 stls, 2.1 TOs. Shoots .456 FG%, .336 3Pt% and .880 from the FT line where he gets 9.5 FTA per game.

Points are very similar, Butler gets significantly more rebounds, Dame significantly more assist. Butler doubles up on steals, they shoot almost identical numbers from the field, Dame is just a touch higher from '3' (I thought that would be bigger) and they are close at the line but Butler gets there about 20% more often.

So it is quite close offensively but when you consider the defensive impact, I think that is where Butler separates himself.

 

A max deal for Millsap is about 4 yrs, 150 mil.

Just fyi.

People are bitching about AC/ET. You are suggesting doubling those numbers for a guy who is on the wrong side of 30.

This is madness.

 

Agreed. But Dame separates himself from Butler in the locker room. I find it tough to say whether defense or leadership is more valuable. I'm inclined to say leadership, because good defense won't do much if you can't get your teammates to follow your lead.

 

When did draft picks become sure things? They usually take years to develop. I'm not saying I want to just give them away, but we gotta take risks sometime otherwise we'll be having this same conversation years from now. If you have an opportunity to acquire Millsap, DO IT. And this isn't an Afflalo situation (btw that was the right move as well, sorry that Olshey couldn't predict Matthews' injury) because Millsap is on a completely different level. An all star caliber player compared to a bench player, which is what Afflalo was brought in for. Don't forget that if we acquired Millsap, we would be able to offer him more money than anyone else. That might not have mattered to Aldridge, but not everyone is the same.

 

It's not about them being sure things, it's about them being among the most valuable assets we have.

 

I don't think @Scalma has come to the realization that we are a mediocre team yet. Even with an aging Millsap, this team can very realistically top out as a 40-45 win team that pays luxury tax for 3 straight years. Meaning, no exceptions to acquire players. And now, no picks locked on cheap contracts. Is that really what we want? Even PA is not that foolishly rich to keep shelling out 200 mil in salaries and taxes every year for what is at-best, a 6th seed.

Right now, I'd put our pick and Cleveland's right behind Dame and CJ as our most valuable assets. They are not throw ins.

 

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Two picks below 20th, an injured player who will never play for us and Meyers fucking Leonard is an overpay for someone who was an all start last year and would start for us as our 3rd best player?

How the hell do you consider that an overpay?

 

I guess you think Tyler Lydon, Kieta Bates-Diop, and Meyers Leonard would be so much more valuable than Paul Millsap.

Ridiculous.

 

CLEs isn't that valuable. Protecting ours from being traded inside the top 20 means that we shouldn't be hesitant to trade it. Because either the trade works out and that player helps us to a top 10 record or it doesn't and we keep our pick.

About a third of 21st-30th picks become rotation players. We shouldn't be afraid to trade those picks.

 

I think Millsap would stay, and if it's unlikely to be below 20 than we keep our pick and give up ONE 1st that will likely be 29th or 30th.

 

Even if "leadership" really is as valuable as a tangible skill like defense (which I don't believe, though I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant), there isn't any real evidence that Lillard is some superstar leader. There's been plenty of ink spilled about how Lillard doesn't do a lot to lead, that he "leads by example." Leading by example is something any excellent player can do. I'd love for the other Blazers to follow Jimmy Butler's example on defense.

 

Read all of the posts about it and if you still don't get it then...well, I don't know what. But there's nothing more to say that hasn't already been said.

 

So you're basically saying: "It wouldn't turn us into true contenders so I wouldn't want to make this team better at risk of losing the 29th pick in the draft and our chance at players I've never heard about (such as Jonathan Motley, Tyler Lydon, Edmond Sumner, etc.)"

 

Leadership is very important (agreed) but CJ may be as much of a leader as Dame if he were gone. (I can't believe we are even discussing that but when teams underperform, it's all fair game.) If we were to lose Dame's leadership, would CJ be able to fill that role? Then by adding Butlers additional defense along with similar scoring, it would seem we would come out ahead.

Dame himself has said he was hesitant to call out teammates for their poor defense. That is probably because he knows he is one of the main culprits. But it has been reported that teammates have specifically asked him to do so but maybe that just isn't his thing.

 

See Platypus' response.

Also:

Also, again, it's not about the risk of losing "our chance at players I've never heard about". It's about the fact that the draft pick - even the 29th - is one of our more valuable assets. We could do better than a Millsap rental by packaging it on draft day - at least then, whoever we trade the pick for will be on our roster next season.