Religion Sam Harris destroys Political Correctness on Islam

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  1. stampedehero

    stampedehero Make Your Day, a Doobies Day Staff Member Moderator

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    A dead Muslim mother and child is still a dead mother and child. If a Muslim air force residing in our country bombed our people; what would be our reaction? p04s1ms7.jpg
     
    stampedehero, Mar 9, 2017
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  2. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Islam even 50 or 60 years ago wasn't this dominated by Salafism or Wahabbism. In a way it would be something like the Westboro types seizing control of the narrative and welding an enormous amount of influence on policy that was disproportionate to their membership; moderate Muslims are increasingly silenced in their own countries for fear of reprisals.
     
    Nikolokolus, Mar 9, 2017
    #22
  3. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    To cement control over the oil in Saudi Arabia, Western intelligence pushed those right-wing variants of the religion. Western intelligence can undo what they have done without war. They already have the Saudi educational system infiltrated.
     
    jlprk, Mar 9, 2017
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  4. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Wahhabism is about 200 years old...probably a better analogy (no one thinks they're Westboro-equivalent) would be if the Church of Latter Day Saints (a branch of Protestant Christianity founded in the last two centuries and held to by a not-insignificant number of adherents) said that they were the "real" Christians, and that any Catholic (Shi'a) or Protestant (Sunni) who didn't practice they way they did or believe exactly what LDS believed in all things religious should be put to death. And of course infidels and women (if you're not monotheistic --specifically in worship of the God of Mohammed--congratulations, you're an infidel) require armed jihad against them by any means necessary till their death or submission to the Wahhabi doctrine. OBTW, carrying the analogy forward, if those "all things religious" incorporated as civil law the ramblings of a scholar looking to make Christianity "pure" by focusing almost solely all of those parts of Leviticus that non-Christians generally bring up, destroying statues and "idolatrous demon palaces" like the Vatican and Notre Dame and razing the Capitol Dome in order to make it look more like a "true" LDS ediface.

    jlprk, some of us (though not enough) know more about Islam than most Christians know about Christianity (and frankly, than many Muslims do). It's kind of a copout to quote idiots on the matter.
     
    BrianFromWA, Mar 9, 2017
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  5. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    I'd rather hear from Muslim experts who are Muslims living in Muslim countries, than "Muslim experts" who are American Judeo-Christians. An example of the latter is defining "good Muslim" as a Muslim who follows the Judeo-Christian value system.
     
    jlprk, Mar 9, 2017
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  6. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    If they think that, they're not "experts" now, are they?
     
    BrianFromWA, Mar 9, 2017
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  7. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Well what's your expert definition of "good Muslim." We keep reading in the American news that the "real Muslim religion" believes in peace and love, not in war like those "bad Muslims" who deserve to be killed (and like Mohammed himself, who was a military general and not at all like Jesus). It's clearly Judeo-Christians projecting their beliefs onto the world, demanding that other religions share identical values to ours...which is called imperialism.
     
    jlprk, Mar 9, 2017
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  8. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Poor word choice on my part. I wasn't trying suggest Salafism and Wahabism are only 50 or so years old, and that they are "Westboror crazy," only that their sort of hardline version of Islam wasn't the dominant strain in most of the Islamic world as recently as the 1950s and 1960s.

    I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but I do try to read a lot about the subject and educate myself. I'd appreciate it if you could drop the insults.
     
    Nikolokolus, Mar 9, 2017
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  9. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Nik, no insult was intended. in my line of work I've had many conversations about this, and especially about the "Westboro analogy", from practicing Christians to practicing Muslims. In my response about LDS it was not an attempt to pick apart what you said, but to explain a bit to the people who'll read this that bringing up Westboro isn't nearly mainstream enough to describe Wahhabbism/Salafism to "regular" or "moderate" Muslims.

    The expert quip to jlprk wasn't directed at you. It was to the unnamed experts jlprk talks to who say that good Muslims are Judeo-Christian ones. I didn't take your post to be anything of the sort.
     
    BrianFromWA, Mar 9, 2017
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  10. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    My bad. I misread your post then. And I agree that the Westboro church wasn't the greatest straight-line analogy. FWIW, I'm practicing atheist, so I don't have that much skin in the game when it comes to religions. I think they're all a bit crazy in their own way. Islam just seems to be the one struggling the most with modernity at the moment. Hopefully these spasms of violence give way to an Islamic version of the Enlightenment.
     
    Nikolokolus, Mar 9, 2017
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  11. BlazerWookee

    BlazerWookee UNTILT THE DAMN PINWHEEL!

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    Wait. Atheism takes practice?
     
    BlazerWookee, Mar 9, 2017
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  12. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Deprogramming definitely took practice.
     
    Nikolokolus, Mar 9, 2017
    #32
  13. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    I don't talk, I read. A big issue lately has been that some Republicans wanted Obama to use the term "radical Islam" or "radical Muslim" and that Trump will use the term. It means the same as "bad Muslim." The term translates to "Muslims we should kill."

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....7.7.0.85.483.7.7.0...0.0...1ac.1.XYJtK3ioxfA

    A Freudian projection is a perception of others as ourselves, when they are not. What I wrote above is that these Republicans project their own religion's value system onto a billion Muslims, who will never conform to the European value system no matter how much you torture them. Your war with a billion people is an evil war. Even if it had a virtuous goal, and the goal is simply to increase Western power over the East, it will not win anyway. 3 million deaths in Iraq, dozens of torture asylums around the world...it's not only unwinnable, it not only increases the counterattacks upon the West, it's also evil and morally indefensible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
    jlprk, Mar 9, 2017
    #33
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