What do I need to defend? I was sick of people saying Crabbe is overpaid, which he is not and I made sure I got my point across because typing in normal text wasn't getting it done and that resulted in a lively spirited discussion that went into about 2 am with Boob, Bones, and at times Tester and Scalma. Why's it such a big deal to you?
...God forbid a thread on this board stay on topic and not turn into pointless, stupid, meaningless arguments...
I agree. Crowder is an upgrade over Mo as a starting SF. He's is a better 3-point shooter, gets to the FT line a lot more, where he is also a much better FT shooter. He's a better rebounder, a better passer and a better defender. In some areas Mo is almost as good, and since he's 3 years younger may eventually catch Crowder in those areas. But Mo's improvement has been frustratingly slow and incremental. At this point, I think his best case upside is Jae Crowder. Mo is on a reasonable contract, but Crowder is on an even better contract. I'm not concerned about the age thing as Crowder is the same age as Dame. Anyone Dame's age or younger fits our window. I mentioned in another thread yesterday that Patrick Beverly and Lou Williams are also both available as salary dumps and that, according to the ESPN Trade Machine, either could be swapped straight up for Festus Ezeli (however, I'm not sure if that's true in Beverly's case as the ESPN Trade Machine is still using 2016-17 salaries and Beverly is on a declining contract). In any case, both BOS and HOU are REALLY looking to dump as much salary as possible. So, I REALLY hope Neil is able to use the FEEC to land one of Crowder, Beverly or Lou Williams. My preferences are: Crowder - 1a Beverly - 1b Williams - 3 Crowder and Beverly both address needs, both fit our window and are both on very team friendly contracts - something that is going to be very important going forward. Williams would be our oldest player, is only under contract for one more season (at only $7 million) and is a MUCH better 6th man than anyone we currently have. I give a slight edge to Crowder over Beverly, as Crowder would improve our starting 5 while Beverly would make out bench much better by giving us someone that can guard opposing PGs. So hopefully Neil can use FEEC to land one of these three and maybe he can work a 3-way trade with BRK that lands us the other two - and helps us also shed some salary. My perfect storm that takes advantage of using all of FEEC, BOS's and HOU's desire to dump salaries and BRK's love of Crabbe: 1) FEEC to BOS for Jae Crowder - works salary wise, gives us an upgrade at starting SF that is locked up on a very cheap contract for three more seasons and lets BOS dump $6.8 million in salary. Easy-peasy, win:win. 2) Allen Crabbe to BRK, Patrick Beverly and Lou Williams to POR for all of BRKs non-guaranteed contracts. We may have to throw in something like a lottery protected future 1st round pick to BRK and maybe HOU also throws in a future 2nd round pick, or something. I REALLY don't want to take back another bad contract (like Mozgov) to make this work. BRK is so far under the cap, they can EASILY take on Crabbes contract without sending back any salary. This gives us a defensive minded back up PG and a much better 6th man, both of whom are under very team friendly contracts. It also lets us get out from under Crabbe's contract. BRK currently has 5 guys with non-guaranteed contracts, all that make between $1.5 and $1.7 million each. This lets HOU move both Beverly and Williams to clear cap space. With their draft picks going to BOS, BRK is desperate to acquire talent and future draft picks in any way possible. They valued Crabbe enough last summer to offer him this contract. If they still value him that much, here's their chance to get him and also acquire an additional draft pick, or two, for their troubles. The timing is tricky, because Crabbe can't be traded to BRK until July 8 and all those two of those 5 non-guaranteed BRK contracts have a deadline of 6/30. So, this may need to go down in multiple trades. Because BRK is so far under the cap, it should still be possible. For example, they can execute two trades with HOU now involving Beverly and Williams for their non-guaranteed picks and agree to a separate trade of Pat Bev and Lou Williams to us for Crabbe and a pick to be completed on July 8. And if BRK also wants Mo Harkless, if we already have obtained Jae Crowder for FEEC, I'd be willing to throw him in too to sweeten the deal. I like Mo and he's one of our few players with a reasonable contract, but if we have Crowder, Mo becomes completely redundant. Because of his still young age and reasonable contract, he may be the incentive BRK needs to help us and HOU get what we want. By moving their 5 non-guaranteed contract to HOU, BRK would have enough space to absorb both Crabbe's and Mo's contracts. From their perspective they would be landing two starters under the the age of 25 and one or two future draft picks and all they would be giving up are a bunch of nobodies they were going to cut anyway. Sure, they give up most of their cap space, but it's not like they have had good luck acquiring free agents, even when offering to overpay them. That sounds complicated, but it's really not. It could be executed as multiple simple trades. For us, we get a better starting SF, a solid back up PG that is 1st team all defense and one of the best 6th men in the game, and shed a shit ton of salary in the process. BNM
Hey, I just took my best shot at getting it back on topic. Unfortunately, my Realistic trade idea includes moving Allen Crabbe. So, the potential for it immediately jump the tracks again is very high. BNM
We would have to trade a 1st for Crowder. I'd support sending Aminu for a 2nd rounder, then including that in this trade: BOS Gets: 2018 POR 1st, Team C 2nd, Our newly acquired 2nd We Get: Crowder Team C Gets: Ezeli, Davis (for a 2nd rounder). Trading for Crowder opens up an opportunity to trade Harkless with Leonard to save cap space and potentially add a decent asset. For example, I would try to entice New York with a Leonard, Harkless, and Napier for O'Quinn and future 2nds deal (restocking our cupboard of 2nds). Harkless is young, from NYK and would be a Melo replacement, Leonard might be a decent reclamation project for them to take on, and they have no other PG on the roster except for Ntilikina, who's not ready to play big minutes. After these deals, we'd save $31M, and our payroll would be $110M. That would give us our full MLE to add to a rotation of: Lillard / McCollum / Quarterman McCollum / Crabbe / Connaughton Crowder / Turner / Layman Vonleh / O'Quinn / Swanigan Nurkic / Collins We improve on defense, get under the tax line, clear the logjam in the frontcourt and upgrade our starting SF, all before adding the potential MLE player.
HA! Definitely wasn't talking about your post. Appreciate the attempt. This board has somehow taken the next step from general arguments and complaining to arguing and complaining about those arguments and complaints. That's when I completely tune out.
So we add Crowder/PatBev/Lou Williams and we only give up FEEC and Crabbe? I would do that in a heartbeat... but we would need to follow that up with a trade to clear up some of the logjams. Now you'd have Beverley/Bazz/Lou Williams/Turner/Connaughton in the backcourt. You'd have Harkless (if you didn't include him in the trade), Aminu, Layman, and Crowder at SF. You'd have Collins, Swanigan, Ed Davis, Noah, Nurk, and Meyers at the four and five. So let's say we're good with a rotation of Dame/Bev at point guard. Who would be the backup two? Lou Williams? Turner? Does Crowder start? Is Aminu the backup? Who's the starting four next year? Collins? Vonleh? Who backs up Nurk? Meyers? Ed Davis? Collins? So many questions...
It's hot outside. The draft is done. There's nothing much to talk about until free agency starts. Plus, we drafted a white player, and for some reason that's polarizing...
That's not a next step. It's the same backwards steps. It's been done for years. Stay away from the OT section. Now back on topic. Crabbe sucks. Let's find a team to unload him on. @Boob-No-More and @BonesJones have made great suggestions above.
This post is just stupid. TWolves "have the balls" to take advantage of a severely lopsided trade that nets them an all star? You don't say. SMH
I agree that was a pretty gutsy and somewhat controversial move by the Blazers. Any or all of the three draft picks involved could succeed, or bust. The Blazers took a chance on a non-sure thing, and gave up two chances to make a good call for one. The TWolves took advantage of a sure thing. How "ballsy" of them.
Not worried about guys like Bazz, Connaughton, Layman, Meyers, etc, as they would be in our bottom 5 - this year's version of the bench mob that mops up during garbage time. Yes, Lou Williams would be our back up SG. It's a role he's played long and played well. Turner can back up all three PG, SG and SF positions as match ups and injuries dictate. Aminu can be a defensive specialist coming off the bench against SFs and stretch 4s. I anticipate Vonleh will continue to start at the 4 for now, as he's the incumbent and seems comfortable starting, but playing less than 20 MPG. I expect Collins to see significant minutes (say in the low 20s) backing up both Nurk and Vonleh. If he earns it, which I have no doubt he will, I expect Swanigan to take Meyers' minutes (and his lunch). If we landed all three of Crowder, Beverly and Williams, and moved Crabbe and Harkless in the process, our top 10 would be: Dame C.J. Nurk Crowder Vonleh Williams Collins Turner Beverly Swanigan We could keep Davis an Aminu as cheap insurance, or I'd be fine with moving them for future draft picks. The rest don't really matter than much in the grand scheme of things. Trade who you can, keep who you want, whatever... BNM
Balls are weak things. Tender things. You can barely graze them and bring a man to his knees. Vaginas? Those things can have 10 pound babies and take a POUNDING.
I see what you mean but I'm not talking numbers. I'm talking the eye test. He didn't show one new move nor the ability to do anything different than the year before.
The most vulnerable part of the male anatomy on the OUTSIDE of the body kind of disproves both the theory of evolution and the existence of a god - well at least a male god. If god does exist, I'm sure she's laughing her ass off every time a guy gets hit in the nuts. Probably watching reruns of America's Funniest Home Videos right now. BNM
Realistic? That's a Neil Olshey word. -Levine (with his torn ACL) + 23 year old bust Dunn + a friggin swap for a top 15 player is not "Realistic". -Buddy Hield and mid tier pick for one of the best Centers in the league is not "Realistic". I'm not saying that we could have had Butler,Cousins or anyone else. I'm just saying that bad deals happen all the time in the NBA.
It's in the title of the thread. I didn't create the thread. Bad deals happen. CHI benefited from this one. NP benefited from the Cousins trade. We fucking won the Nurk trade. We got the much better, younger player AND the 20th pick in the draft for a guy we were going to lose for nothing. We can't be on the winning end of EVERY bad trade. Just be glad we got in on one of them. BNM
