OT Was Robert E. Lee really all that evil?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by EL PRESIDENTE, Aug 15, 2017.

Moderators: 7

Moderators

  1. BrianFromWA
  2. Chris Craig
  3. Darkwebs
  4. Ed O
  5. PtldPlatypus
  6. SlyPokerDog
  7. Strenuus
Page 9 of 19
  1. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
     
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #161
  2. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
     
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #162
  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,055
    Likes Received:
    24,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Yes, and? I'm not sure I see your point. I didn't deny that slavery existed in the US.

    Are there a lot of statues of Washington in England? [I googled it - there is one.]

    Yeah, so? I wasn't suggesting Washington didn't own slaves.

    Yes we did.

    Not sure what you are saying is spin? The idea that Lee fought against the US? He did, it's a fact.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Aug 17, 2017
    #163
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    LOL at the weak sauce, barfo.

    You posted that all that stuff matters somehow, then you post your agreement with my points.

    Fine by me. We can agree that the spin that there is no moral equivalence between Washington and Lee is utter bullshit.
     
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #164
  5. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
     
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #165
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,055
    Likes Received:
    24,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    I'm still a little confused as to why you thought I made some argument about moral equivalence between Washington and Lee, when I never mentioned Washington at all?

    You wouldn't have been making strawmen again, would you?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Aug 17, 2017
    #166
  7. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Look, I'm English, I don't give a shit about George Washington. But are the statues of George Washington celebrating him AS A SLAVE OWNER? Then they need to come down. Are the celebrating him as a founder of the USA? Okay, they can stay. Now, are the statues of Robert E. Lee celebrating him as a FIGHTER FOR THE CONFEDERACY? They can come down. Are they on his descendants' private property as reminders of their flawed ancestors? Fine, keep 'em.

    The VAST MAJORITY of the statues of people like Lee and Jackson were always intended as a warning to black people not to get uppity. That's why white people liked 'em. Heritage my ass. You think Jeffrey Dahmer's family is going to be putting up statues to him?
     
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #167
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Not a straw man.

    You are paroting the talking points in the media and are making an argument about moral equivalence. Why statue of one deserves to stand while the other must be removed. If that's not about moral equivalence, feel free to actually correct what you are talking about.
     
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #168
  9. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Also: is there anyone in the world who thinks Donald Trump is the person to go to about (a) history and (b) art?


     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #169
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    He was a slave owner. He fought to establish a country of slavery.

    Typically, statues are erected to celebrate the things the person did. For establishing the country and peaceful (until 2016) transition from one administration to another, being a war hero, Washington gets statues. For being a war hero, a man of honor, the man who made peace at the end of the Civil War, for defending the people against Sherman (who burned farms to the ground across the South), Lee got his statues erected.

    Nazis built the concentration camps. Those weren't razed at the end of the war or since. The reasons these things stand change over time.
     
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #170
    Jade Falcon likes this.
  11. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,055
    Likes Received:
    24,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    You seem confused. Maybe that rock you are pushing up the hill is feeling a bit heavier today?

    Feel free to go back and read my posts if you actually want to know what they say.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Aug 17, 2017
    #171
  12. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Yes, he was a slave owner. But did he fight to establish a COUNTRY OF SLAVERY? That was the whole point? So the constitutions was just "all white people must be allowed to own black people otherwise what's the point" I feel like if that's true then (a) more kids need to be taught that, and (b) fine, bring down the fucking Washington statues too.

    Isn't it amazing how Trump has brought about a complete reversal of the Reagan "Shining City On A Hill" stuff? Now Trump's method is to say "we're just as shitty as the rest of them, in fact, we may be worse!" It's sort of refreshing. Maybe at this rate when the US crumbles nobody will miss it.

    So now we DON'T celebrate what they did, they can be UN-erected? Fine by me!
     
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #172
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    These are talking points from TV and other lefty sources.

    Especially the bolded part.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/...e-lee-george-washington-thomas-jefferson.html

    Mr. Trump’s comments drew strongly negative reactions on Twitter from many historians, who condemned his “false equivalence” between the white nationalists and the counterprotesters.

    But “where does it stop?” — and what counts as erasing history — is a question scholars and others have asked, in much more nuanced ways, as calls have come to remove monuments not just to the Confederacy, but to erstwhile liberal heroes and pillars of the Democratic Party like Andrew Jackson (a slave owner who, as president, carried out Native American removal) and Woodrow Wilson (who as president oversaw the segregation of the federal bureaucracy).​

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/donald...ce-between-george-washington-and-robert-e-lee

    Donald Trump’s Immoral Equivalence Between George Washington and Robert E. Lee

    -- Plus the 24/7 TV nonsense making the same claims.
     
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #173
    Jade Falcon likes this.
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    In terms maybe you can understand. Without any filter.

     
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #174
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #175
  16. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    So, presumably Denny would be fine with this:

    because, (a) it's not a person, and (b) it's in FUCKING MONTANA, so there's not even a pretense of it celebrating the state's heritage?
     
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #176
  17. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,841
    Likes Received:
    25,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Isn't it cute when Denny thinks he's got a point? It's kind of like when a kindergartener thinks they've made great art.
     
    Rastapopoulos, Aug 17, 2017
    #177
  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,055
    Likes Received:
    24,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    It is somewhat believable that Trump learned what he knows about history from looking at statues.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Aug 17, 2017
    #178
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Isn't it cute when Rasta is hoisted by his own petard?
     
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #179
    Jade Falcon likes this.
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    They made this for you!

    upload_2017-8-17_10-17-17.png
     
    Denny Crane, Aug 17, 2017
    #180
Page 9 of 19

Share This Page