Uh huh. I was responding to Sinobas' post that the Union should have just blockaded the South til they gave up slavery, which the South had already proven they were willing to go to war to preserve. My post had nothing to do with Lincoln's motivations.
A woman has a legal right to leave a marriage. A section of the United States doesn't have the legal right to unilaterally choose to become a separate nation. So, while your counter-example is certainly eye-catching, it's not actually valid.
There's nothing in the constitution that forbids secession. In fact, the Declaration of Independence said that when government becomes oppressive, you rebel against it or leave it. Many believe Lincoln altered the very nature of this nation by making the Federal bit more important than the States bit. Your blockade idea is unworkable. The South would have made export deals with the British and French and your navy would be attacking those nations' ships.
The Supreme Court has consistently held that the Constitution created an "indestructible union." So there currently is no merit to the idea that secession is a legal option. That was Sinobas' idea. I agree that it was unworkable.
Lincoln also floundered around worse than Bush in Iraq or even this Trump administration. He fired people left and right until he found a general who could win. Gettysburgh was fought on NORTHERN soil. The North was losing the war for a good part of it.
Once they were invaded, it became a matter of honor to defend their homeland. Many Confederate soldiers said how they were fighting to defend their state, most of them did not own slaves. It's a non-sequitur to assume that because they defended their home states from invasion, that they would not have eventually made consessions as the result of a blockade.
They were a rebellion, not a sovereign nation. So there was no invasion, simply a rebellion being put down.
There is nothing in the constitution forbidding secession. There are secession movements in several states, including Hawaii and California. The US will not start bombing those places if they leave. That would be silly. The Hawaiians would learn that leaving the empire would worsen their poverty. California would learn that they'll have to pollute since they won't have Texas doing it for them.
There was nothing in the constitution that forbid it. And even if you're living in a culture where a woman has no legal right to divorce, that still doesn't mean the husband has "no option" but to kill her.
Yes a blockade is an act of war. Lincoln committed two acts of war after the south seceded. The first was sending Federal troops to occupy the old abandon fort in Charleston bay, fort Sumter which at that time was territory of South Carolina and the Confederacy. And he did order the blockade of the south.. These two acts of war goaded them into firing on Fort Sumter, as it was part of the blockade of Charleston.
For most of our history, people felt paramount loyalty to their state/colony, then to the nation. We were referred to as "These United States" before the war. It would be like if the other EU nations invaded England to preserve the European Union. Oh, but they have "no choice" right?
There was a lot of pressure on Lincoln to make peace with the South and just let them go. No matter what the Supreme Court might say about it, those states would not be part of the United States. If the South won, it wouldn't matter, either. So it really doesn't matter what the Court rules on this one.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. (No matter what the Queen of England, the High Court of England, or the US Supreme Court says otherwise).
You don't know the local Hawaiians by this post.....it would affect the mainland haoles who are profiting and occupying their best land....the local Japanese-Hawaiians are pretty savvy business folks....the Japanese tourist industry alone would not dry up ...it fact in would probably increase...A lot of locals live in pretty much poverty as it is. Mainlanders will continue to vacation there no matter who's running the joint. Locals know how to live without a lot of shopping...food grows itself, fish, wild boar, cattle.....Hawaii is not a desert....it's not turning into a ghost town
Yet another issue people must prove x is right. When it's factual both Lincoln and the south were to blame for the civil war. To act like one is innocent while the other is free of guilt is just utter blindness.
You don't know the Hawaiians. The typical Hawaiian makes half what people do on the mainland, while the rich mainland haoles buy up their land. Tourism is nowhere near enough to save Hawaii from losing their (yes) Interstate Highway funds - losing those alone would see the roads throughout the state go into disrepair. I lived there for several years and absolutely know the people and this issue. Their nation was stolen from them by the US, their government deposed, and they were voted into the US by non Hawaiians. Some of them believe they can rent out Pearl Harbor to the US after seceding and that would pay for a lot. I don't think the US would keep the base there. There are plenty of other places they can operate from.
