CJ from the Bench?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Labinot41, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    19,094
    Likes Received:
    22,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Due to the emergence of a third star. Draymond's minutes INCREASED by more than 10 MPG, and his role increased dramatically.

    That was Kerr's real genius compared to Mark Jackson. Jackson tried to play Curry as a conventional PG. In that role, Curry was relied upon to be GSW's #1 scorer and their #1 facilitator. It wasn't just how many minutes Curry was playing that wore him down, it was how much he had the ball in his hands and how much he had to do. It also allowed defenses to really key on Curry.

    Kerr realized that Curry could be much more efficient, and much "fresher" if he could play off the ball more. Without Draymond's emergence as their primary ball handler and leader in assists, Curry would probably have continued to play big minutes.

    With Nurk, we may have the third piece of a legitimate Big 3. He won't play the same role as Draymond, but he can still make things easier for his teammates. Hopefully, that leads to more and bigger leads and more rest and less fatigue for Dame and C.J.

    Since we clearly don't have four stars of the same caliber as GSW, we still need Dame and C.J. on the floor to win close games. Hopefully, with Nurk and an improved team defense, we will have fewer close games that need winning.

    BNM
     
    BonesJones likes this.
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Exactly. The Warriors are resolute that resting the players led to the blowouts.

    Same players the year before, 51 wins.
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Green averaged 11 PPG. A fine all around player. They still played him 31 minutes, resting him per their plan.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    FWIW, one of the arguments for firing Thibs in chicago was that he played his players heavy minutes and did not emulate the Warriors plan. That sports science, wearables, and all that, dictates reducing player minutes leads to better health and results.

    Also FWIW, I would argue that all the greats played really big minutes, be it Wilt or Kareem or Jordan or even LeBron.
     
  5. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    19,094
    Likes Received:
    22,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He played 21 MPG the year before Kerr took over as coach. How is increasing his PT to 31 MPG "resting" him?

    And, as pointed out that GSW team had an average margin of +10.5 ppg. That makes it pretty easy to rest your stars in the 4th quarter of blowouts.

    To really answer the chicken and egg question, you need to look at PT per quarter before and after Kerr. Also, factor in the score. Did, Curry and Thompson still play comparable of minutes over the first three quarters under Kerr as under Jackson. Is their extra rest coming primarily in the 4th quarters of games where they have large leads? I'll leave that exercise for you.

    BNM
     
  6. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    19,094
    Likes Received:
    22,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course more rest leads to less wear and tear. The problem is, unless you are also blessed with four stars, including two MVPs and multi time league scoring champs, it also leads to more losses.

    BNM
     
    SportsAndWhine likes this.
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    They won in 2014-15 with 2 actual stars, one who'd been injury prone.

    We have 2 actual stars, and hopefully Nurk.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,976
    Likes Received:
    10,655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Not playing him 38 minutes is resting him.

    Kerr played none of his players excessive minutes. That's by design.

    You can keep touting the result, but you're ignoring the cause.
     
  9. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    19,094
    Likes Received:
    22,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Again, it's a LOT easier to rest your starters when your average margin is greater than +10 ppg.

    The Warriors plan seems to be, build a 20 point lead early in the 4th quarter, rest our starters and coast to a win. Most teams, including the Blazers, don't have players to execute such a plan.

    You're the one ignoring the "cause". The Warriors can rest their stars because they have more talent than their opponents. That superior talent leads to big leads, which then lets them rest that superior talent.

    BNM
     
    BonesJones likes this.
  10. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,536
    Likes Received:
    38,600
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    6min of rest per half compared to 7min changes nothing in terms of my argument. Where's CJs rest coming from each half if he's brought off the bench?
     
  11. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    19,094
    Likes Received:
    22,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks, the bolded part is exactly the point I was making. It's easy to rest your stars when you have more stars than anyone else and you have a large number of fourth quarter blowouts.

    BNM
     
  12. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    19,768
    Likes Received:
    16,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    PDX
    If CJ doesn't start giving effort on Defense then yes.
     
  13. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    62,907
    Likes Received:
    22,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
    CJ already comes off the bench but he plays first 4-5 minutes too. We did not get off to great start last night anyway. Didn't get going til Pat came in.
     
  14. ripcityboy

    ripcityboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    12,934
    Likes Received:
    10,797
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    pdx, or, usa.
    Let's wait till we see how the defense does against Indiana with CJ starting.
     
  15. WillG

    WillG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    3 blocks or no, Dames defense last night was still atrocious. He was trailing the plays woefully.

    If the defense was better, it was because we inserted a 6'7" SG next our point guard.
    If CJ was the PG, then the defense would be even better - he's a better defender than Lillard.
     
    GrandJury likes this.
  16. ripcityboy

    ripcityboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    12,934
    Likes Received:
    10,797
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    pdx, or, usa.
    There are people maniacally obsessed with the idea that Dame/CJ can't contend. In order to win you need both scorers on the floor, but they are too much of a defensive liability. It's the Curry/Ellis scenario that keeps getting brought up. So how do you keep both happy without losing too much on D? Start Dame and sit CJ but then switch CJ out at PG..... then have Turner the primary ball handler and run Dame off screens? I think it's crap but the dialog is out there.
     
  17. WillG

    WillG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I actually think our system and coaching does no favors for either guy. Watch how easily CJ & Dame are 'shed' by the opposing PG in play. Its just flat out woeful.
    That it hasn't been addressed in years now is on the coaching staff as much as the players.
    The execution is just not there.
     
  18. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14,608
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Trophy Points:
    113
     
    dviss1 likes this.
  19. GrandJury

    GrandJury Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    445
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yea that makes a lot of sense, but let’s bench CJ right? Smh
     
  20. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    29,479
    Likes Received:
    27,329
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know what game you were watching but Dame played excellent D last night.

    Your post has absolutely no clue of what it's talking about.
     
    SIeepwalker likes this.

Share This Page