Zombie What is the Best Offer We Could Get for C.J. McCollum?

I'm sorry dude, i'm all for winning and i enjoy watching talented players play, but at the end of the day...Hinkie was right!
This is a "get rich or die trying league". If we know that this team is not elite and will never be elite and Olshey is failing at making steals at the draft then "blowing it up" is not a laughable idea anymore.

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9z8tmhx

 

Trading Dame, CJ, AND Nurk for draft picks and tanking...

IS A STUPID IDEA.

 

You over value CJ a little bit IMO. HE is not elite or an All Star. Just a very good combo guard who can shot and create for his own shot but not for Teammates. And as long as LeBron doesn't say he stays in Cleveland, Cavs never trade the brooklyn pick for CJ because this is their future pick for a post lebron time. But if lebron says he want's to stay in Cleveland and finnish his career, then yes.

 

Don't use the ASG as a measuring stick. I think CJ could help LeBron stay.

But that's the whole point of this thread. What is his value?

 

I don't think Brooklyn pick is worth that much to be honest. The next draft has five big players who are supposed to have start potential: Porter, Doncic, Ayton, Bagley and Bamba (I am not even sure Bamba belongs here). Then there's a few very good talents like Sexton, Bridges and Knox but they are a tier below. Basically unless you get top 5 pick, you don't know.

Hawks, Bulls, Kings and Mavericks will end up with a worse record than Nets because they all own their picks. Suns have been tank masters for a long time. Magic have been bad lately. Nets could well end up having no. 8 or no. 9 pick which isn't really worth THAT much.

 

FTFY.

 

I get why people are frustrated with the losing. I can even understand the sentiment that Dame and CJ are too small/duplicate to work as a backcourt on a contending team. I don't agree with that, but I understand the argument and think it has some merit. What I don't get is the idea that you trade CJ for a bunch some mid-level talent and draft picks. Do we not learn diddly from watching the draft year after year? You can burn through a shit-ton of draft picks before you get a guy as talented as CJ is. If you want to propose trading CJ for a proven quality player at a position of need, make your proposal. But these ideas of dumping CJ just so we can take another chance on a draft pick? Put me down as fully opposed to that idea.

 

Ehhh, I'd think about it as Miles Bridges at worst, with a chance at Bagley, Doncic, or Porter

Also, I think the Top 6 will be (in order):
Atlanta
Chicago
Sacremento
Dallas
Pheonix
Brooklyn

If Brooklyn ends up 4th or 5th, we'd likely be able to draft Michael Porter Jr. If we got insanely lucky, our pick (which may be 8th-10th after trading CJ) would get into the top 3.

By trading for the BKN pick and tanking, we'd literally have the chance of adding Bagley and Porter Jr. I still think we'd be a lottery team the next year. If we got some 2007 luck and beat the odds for the 1st pick, we'd have RJ Barrett as well.

That's insanely unlikely but trading CJ for the BKN pick would make that possible. It's happened before, but this time, we'd get it right. If we couldn't get Barrett, Cameron Reddish isn't a bad fall back option. Lillard, Reddish/Barret, Porter Jr., Bagley, and Nurkic would win a championship at some point.

 

Having a player as good as CJ as our #2 isn't enough to get us to a point where we're competitive in the 2nd round.
Getting draft picks is the only chance to get a player better than CJ.

What does trading CJ for a proven player get us? Another 1st round exit? More season-long frustration?

Trading CJ for an high lotto pick is the only chance we have at winning a championship with Lillard as our PG. You add someone like Bagley and another good young piece and we're on our way towards something. Be bad for two years, stock up the right players (Olshey knows how to draft), and we're contenders when Lillards 31.

Get the right players, and we'd have the best chance at landing a good free agent in our history when the new good young players we're going into 4 year and still making rookie wages, yet playing at an all-star level.

 

What is the lowest pick you'd trade CJ for?
I say #7. Could trade up to maybe #4.

 

Guys making CJ money usually don't get traded year one of the big contract...I don't think CJ will be shopped at all this season

 

I get where you are coming from and share some of these sentiments. I almost regret that the team did so well in 2015-16 when it was fully expected to tank and get a lottery pick, not only because we ended up without a pick but also because it gave false promise and a lot of bad contracts that were handed out. We would not have got no. 1 pick and Ben Simmons anyway but a pick in top 10 could have still been good.

The place we are currently in is hard because I don't really see that much upside in this team. I had high hopes for Zach Collins and I still reckon he will be good but he is still years away from contributing and I am not even sure he will be given a chance here. Nurkic could get better but contrary to what majority on here think I doubt that he will become a top 5 center.

Draft picks is probably the best way to rebuild currently but it's far from a safe way and could lead to us not only not becoming a contender but also becoming as bad as Suns etc. On the other hand we could end up with Bagley and he could be AD 2.0 lite. It's hard to tell. I wouldn't trade certain quality like CJ just for a pick.

I would deal CJ for Cousins if I was convinced that we could be able to re-sign him here. Then I would build time machine to go back to last summer and draft Donovan Mitchell instead of Collins.

 

I disagree. We have two proven quality players on this team in Dame and CJ. We have a pretty good notion that Nurkic will develop into a quality player in a year or two. What's needed is to add a quality wing prospect via trade or the draft. We have enough PF prospects that one of them is likely to turn into a serviceable player on a contending team. If you want to rely on the draft to rebuild, then you may as well trade both Dame and CJ for picks and be content with a five year rebuild like the Sixers and T'Wolves have done. You're not going to get there quick enough with your plan that Dame is going to be your guy. Personally, I've had enough losing and dreaming of draft picks.

 

Becoming as bad as the Suns for a couple years wouldn't be a bad thing. If we landed Bagley somehow, and then we were bad in 2019, we would have a chance at R.J. Barrett who is an athletic 6'7 SG/SF with 0 weaknesses and is possibly still growing. He's said to be a generational prospect. There's no way a core of Bagley, Nurkic, Barrett, and Lillard would stay bad.

In the offseasons of 2020-2022 we could have max cap space to add to that core. That's the most likely chance for Lillard to win a championship. We'd start contending right when the Warriors, Rockets, and maybe Spurs started declining.

 

You've had enough losing? We've made the playoffs 7 out of the past 9 years...

In none of those did we have a chance at making the WCF.

I'm sorry but Dame, CJ, Nurk, and serviceable forwards does not make for a contending team. And that's the best case scenario. I'm not advocating for a 5-year rebuild, as we'd hopefully draft better than those teams, we could have two top 10 picks instead of one by trading CJ, and we have the top level talent to stay good. We wouldn't be bad for more than two years. When Lillard is 31, our young pieces would likely be playing at an all-star level if we draft right/get the right draft spots. Lillard would also be valuable for the development of these young players. Lillard takes great care of his body, and with better pieces around him I think he could play at the level he's at now until he's 32/33. That gives us 5-6 more years of Lillard's prime. I also believe that with better players, Lillard would focus more on playmaking when he started exiting his prime and would still be very productive until a later age than that. So trading Lillard would be foolish.

 

You're dreaming if you're planning on draft picks getting the Blazers into contention in two years. Name a recent top-three pick who has instantly been able to convert to a star quality player at the pro level. The Lakers, T'Wolves, Sixers, etc. are full of can't-miss lottery picks who are finally starting to come into their own three or so years after they're drafted. Guys coming out of college are typically one-and-done if they're good prospects. 19-20 year old players with one year of college ball don't know diddly about how to play in the NBA.

 

3 years after going 21-61 in the 2005-2006 season, we went 54-28 in the 2009-2010 season. That was when we started with 0 talent and our #1 pick in 2007 never turned into anything. Yet, we still got HCA 3 years afterwards. That be like going into rebuild mode now and then getting HCA when Lillard's only 30. In 2006, we had the 4th and 7th picks (turned them into 2 and 6). In 2007, we had the 6th best odds but got the 1st pick. That's something we could replicate by trading CJ for a pick like BKNs.

But we have more top end talent and potential now than we did in 2005-2006, and we'd likely get more out of the draft than we did over that timespan. So I think we'd be better than a 54-win team when Lillard's 30.

I'd rather have our win total go like:
16-17: 30-52
17-18: 30-52
18-19: 44-38
19-20: 56-26

Than this:
16-17: 40-42
17-18: 42-40
18-19: 43-39
19-20: 44-38

 

You've never seen Doncic or Bagley play then... Bagley is super-refined. He has such a low-chance of busting. Doncic is one of the best European players and has an insane basketball IQ for someone his age. I'm not saying two years, I'm saying 3 to 4, which is about the timeline Minnesota and Philadelphia had when they both missed on prospects and didn't start it off with two top 10 picks.

Name a top 3 pick that's instantly turned into a star quality player at the pro level? I don't expect them to their rookie year, so lets look at a 3-year timeline:
Towns
Simmons
Embiid
Booker
Porzingis
McCollum
Jokic
Antetokounmpo

Other players that would've currently been our 3rd best player in their 3rd year:
Turner
Porter
Oladipo
LaVine
Wiggins
Russell
Nurkic
J.Brown
Tatum

 

Not picking on you in particular, Jonesy, but guys who call for tank mode always assume that their draft picks are going to pan out perfectly. They never factor in Embid's foot problems, Okafor's knee issues, Nerlens Noel's health and talent issues, Michael Carter Williams' general meh-ness....etc. Drafting is not a perfect science and even the best picks take time to develop.