How dare you bring data instead of gut feeling into this. (*) (*) In before "Wikipedia, LOL" (**) (**) The CNA report - which is a congressional mandated report seems to present similar numbers. https://www.cna.org/pop-rep/2014/summary/summary.pdf
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-44213618 Image captionThe fire burned for nearly three months in Oregon A judge has ordered a teenager to pay more than $36m (£27m) after he admitted starting a huge forest fire that raged for months in the US state of Oregon. Hood River County Judge John Olson ruled the boy must also write apology notes to 152 people who were trapped on hiking trails by the conflagration. The Eagle Creek fire burned for nearly three months in the scenic Columbia River Gorge, destroying several homes. A lawyer for the 15-year-old called the amount "absurd" and "absolutely silly". In February, the boy - who is not named in court documents - admitted to throwing a firework on 2 September 2017 into the tinder-dry Eagle Creek Canyon - about 50 miles (80km) from Portland. The resulting inferno engulfed 48,000 acres and cost fire crews $18m to fight. He pleaded guilty to eight counts of reckless burning of public and private property, two counts of depositing burning materials on forest land, as well criminal mischief and reckless endangerment of others. In a ruling on Monday, the court said the boy must pay $36,618,330 to Eagle Creek victims, including the US Forest Service, the Oregon Department of Transportation, the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs, the Columbia River Intertribal Fish Commission, a homeowner and others. He was also ordered to serve five years of probation and perform 1,920 hours of community service for the US Forest Service. The court acknowledged in its ruling that the teen will not be able to pay the full amount. Image copyrightWIKIMEDIA COMMONS But Judge Olson cited "safety valves" in state law that allows juvenile offenders to stop payments after 10 years if they finish probation and do not commit any other crimes. Jack Morris, a lawyer for the boy, argued last week that the penalty is excessive and urged the judge to impose a "reasonable and rational" amount, reports the Oregonian . But Judge Olson wrote that the figure "is clearly proportionate to the offence because it does not exceed the financial damages caused by the youth". He also directed the juvenile probation officers to help the boy create a payment schedule. The teen's mother told the Oregonian newspaper in November that the fire was "a trauma" for her son. During his plea hearing in February he begged the court's forgiveness, saying: "I know I will have to live with his bad decision for the rest of my life, but I have learned from this experience and will work hard to help rebuild the community in any way that I can. "I now realise how important it is to think before acting because my actions can have serious consequences."
Those who are defending this asshat and his "crushing debt" need to realize: a) the $37 million was the cost to tax payers of his intentional negligence. b) his careless actions didn't just destroy a beautiful natural area, they also destroyed personal property and put lives in danger. c) he's fucking 15 years old and probably doesn't even have a job, and if he does, he's making minimum wage working part time. d) 25% of minimum wage at 20 hours a week comes to $55 per week, "Crushing debt" my ass. e) if he doesn't fuck up again, it ALL goes away after 10 years. f) if he's smart, he will just choose not to work for his remaining three years of high school and four years of college, then he'll have 25% of his wages garnished for a three whole years. g) his parents are not financially responsible for any of this, so any money they give to him or any money they contribute to his college fund are free and clear. Keep in mind he was totally unrepentant when confronted by other hikers on the trail about the roaring blaze he'd started (basically told them to fuck off and mind their own business). Was too busy trying to flee the scene of his crime to call 911 to report the fire he'd started. I feel zero sympathy for this kid. Anyone who has hiked that trail knows it has posted signs that say "fires prohibited except in designated areas". There are also huge signs along the rode on the way to the trail head that indicate the fire danger (it was severe at the time). This kid isn't going to kill himself over this. His only regret is that he got caught. BNM
I’m not talking about currently enlisted, I’m talking about how the number of people enlisting year by year and currently it’s very low.
Not defending him, I’m just saying you could choose another consequence for him. Didnt know if you knew this but 55 dollars a week doesn’t buy you much in this country, especially trying to make a living by the time he’s 18 plus.
According to data from the Defense Manpower Data Center — an arm of the Department of Defense — the number of active duty military personnel nationwide decreased from 1.16 million in 2013 to 1.12 million at the end of 2017.
Well then I guess Tim Kennedy, a guy who was in the army himself and also in the ufc was wrong. On a podcast the other day he said the number of people enlisting were down and he said they were in trouble and that people needed to enlist.
So, what are you suggesting? Jail time? The kid got off extremely easy compared to the damage he did and the lives he put at risk. Yeah, I get that $55 isn't a lot of money. That was my entire point. That was a high estimate. At 15, as a full time high school student, if he even has a job, it's probably more like 8 - 10 hours a week. In which case the $55 drops to $25. I'm sure that will put a real crimp in his weed and fireworks budget for this summer. Boo fucking hoo! And why are you so worried about his ability to earn a living. He lives with his parents and doesn't even need to work if he doesn't want to, in which case he pays $0 for the damage he's done. And why the sympathy for him and not the 100s of others he put out of work???? What about them???? You realize that the Columbia River Gorge is (well make that was) a major tourist attraction, right? All trails in the main part of the Gorge, on the Oregon side, are entirely closed for the summer, as is the Columbia River Scenic Hwy. That means the Multnomah Falls Lodge gift shop and restaurant will remain closed for at least full a year, most likely longer. That means everyone who normally works there is out of a job through no fault of their own. And that doesn't even include all the small private businesses that depend on tourist dollars to stay afloat. This careless asshat, worst case, loses 25% of his paycheck. His negligence costs hundreds of people 100% of their paychecks. So yeah, I don't feel one tiny bit of sympathy for him. Everyone sees the $37 million figure and thinks, oh poor baby, he's going to have crushing debt for the rest of his life. That's bullshit. That's not how much he's going to have to repay, that's how much he cost others. He's not the victim here. I'll be surprise that if, when all is said and done, he pays back more than $25,000 of the $37,000,000 damage he caused. In the meantime, hundreds of people have lost their jobs and will lose their businesses because of him. BNM
Never said he was a victim. I’m saying you have to remember he’s 15. At 15 as boys we all were dumb. I just think putting him in debt for 10 years is a little ridiculous. I grew up in the country. I love nature. I went to those falls every year as a child and as I got older I hiked the surrounding trails whether it be angels rest or Oneonta. So trust me, when that fire was going yeah I was upset. I was scared they would never be the same. I am in Damascus which is close to mhcc where they were keeping people. I was sad for these older folks and their worry for their homes and love for the forest. I remember smelling the smoke even with my windows closed while watching the news, seeing it in the air. Kate brown treated the fire like she didn’t care, let’s not forget about that. I’m just saying remember he’s 15. Of course he’s a little asshole. All kids at 15 think they know everything and are entitled, especially boys. By your logic though we should hold every 15 year old accountable and in times where we think they are victims, maybe question that. Because hey they know entirely what they are doing right? Their brains are fully developed obviously. Time to start treating every 15 year old like an adult
He's only 15 years old, obviously no credit cards and already 37 million dollars in debt. He's fucked!
Did you see the video of him throwing the firework? He's got an arm! I predict $50mill baseball contract! "Throws fire!"
No he's not. Jesus learn to read. He only has to put 25% of his minimum wage, part time earnings toward paying his debt, and then after 10 years of paying a couple thousand dollars a year, the balance will be forgiven. The $37 million isn't what he will pay, it's the cost of the damage he did. Again, he is NOT the victim here. He's actually lucky he doesn't have a credit card. If he did, his monthly minimum payment would probably be more than the actual payments he will be making to compensate the people he screwed out of $37 million. BNM
He is not being treated like an adult. If he was, the $37 million he owes would not be forgiven after making monthly minimum payments for 10 years. If he was an adult, he'd also most likely be facing criminal charges for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment. Yeah, 15 year old kids do stupid shit. How many of then destroy $37 million in property and the livelihoods of hundreds of hard working people? Those people are the victims here, if if little Johnny Asshat has to pay $25 a week, or $50 a week, or even $500 a week for 10 years it's a pittance compared to what he cost those people. So, he's 15 and stupid, what are we supposed to do, let him off scott free and just say "boy will be boys"? Forget the fact that the damage he did to the forests will never recover in my lifetime, what about all the people he put out of work. And get over the $37 million amount. It's not real - at least not real to him. It's actually VERY real to the people he fucked. That's the actual impact of the damage he has done, not the amount he will repay. He won't even pay back one half of one percent of that amount. In the meantime, the tax payers, the small business owners and the employees of those business are out $37 million. Think about that before you shed a tear for this stupid little fuck. BNM
