Should the Blazers re-sign Jusuf Nurkic this summer?

Zach Lowe said the franchise sees Collins as a really good stretch 5 just last week and Holdahl said the same thing in a podcast mid season.

 

I call Thompson a traditional center and not Capela or Gorbert because Capela and Gobert both have unique qualities that make them different from a traditional center. As does Embiid. Gobert is 7’1 245 with a ridiculous wingspan, Capela is 6’10 240 (viewed as a PF coming out the draft) and can move with guards, and Embiid is a unicorn who finished third in dpoy voting. Thompson is 6’10 245 but can’t move like Capela and doesn’t have the same explosiveness or quickness as Capela. He routinely gets taken out of series because of matchups while Capela, Gobert, and Embiid all stay in the game no matter the opponents lineup because of their unique abilities or freak measurements.

 

Is Mitchell a wing? Thought he was a PG? Either way, rookie? Does Gobert have any offense?
Wiggins? LMAO!
Butler/Towns should be good, but not championship good - both are 2nd Tier players, and I keep hearing Towns doesn't play D.
Adams/George are similar to Butler/Towns, but not as good - Tier 2 and Tier 3 players.
Ginger = PF; CP3 = PG - and they did pretty good except for injuries...especially considering Jordan has no offense.

It doesn't help that there aren't many top tier wings in the league right now...LBJ's only real challenger is Durant. I keep waiting for an infusion of wing talent with each draft.

 

Did you watch the WCF?
Capela was ran off the floor in games 3-6. Largely due to matchups and Capela not forcing GSW to contend with him on the glass.
The other 4 games, he was able to use his size to get on the glass to be effective.
Routinely gsw would seek out capela and try to get him to switch on a guard. It's one of the reasons why GSW started playing so much iso ball.
Gobert is the exact same thing.
Two defensive first centers who like Thompson provide little outside of rebounding.

Embiid can't stay in front of athletic guards either.

All four of the players listed at times will be able to stick with guards. But that doesn't mean they can do it consistently.
Embiid is the only one who really isn't a traditional back to the basket center. But that's only due to his age.

 

Capela averaged 28 mpg in the WCF, GSW is a ridiculous matchup for anybody and any time they use that Hamptons 5 lineup your big is going to be exploited unless you have a Draymond Green. Thompson only played big minutes vs Celtics because he’s traditionally done really well vs Horford and Boston also had Aaron Baynes on the floor. He only started 1 game the entire playoffs before the comference finals, the opposite is true for Capela.

It’s definitely still a mis match getting guards against Gobert, Capela, and Embiid. That will always be the case when a 1 or 2 switches on a 5. It’s just less glaring with that group of guys and they can often make up for it by being able to recover or use their freak length to contest a shot even if they get beat.

 

g3 - Capela 22 minutes
g4 - Capela 24 minutes
g5 - Capela 27 minutes
g6 - Capela 29 minutes

Capela was ran off the floor.
Tucker was the Center. Especially late in games.

I'm not the one who said he could move with guards.
Gobert, Embiid, and Capela are just like Thompson. It's a mismatch when they're forced to match onto a guard.
They're traditional centers defensively.
This isn't hard to understand.

 

I would hardly say Capela got ran off the floor, there was multiple games where he was Houston’s second best player. He did as well against GSW as any 5 in the playoffs, the same will be true after the finals.

I just don’t agree that Embiid, Gobert, and Capela are traditional centers defensively like you do. They all have rare qualities that set them apart from what a traditional center can do defensively.

 

Yes

 

Traditional lineups are not a thing anymore

 

Not when he played in the playoffs. Since Cousins went down i think he pretty much played center.

 

I think keeping Nurkic is somewhat a binary decision. If you believe that he can be a transformative player--top five center in the league, capable of scoring 20+ pts and 10+ Reb each game, dominating the paint on both ends and scoring 30+ pts/game if the other team goes small--then I think you keep him and go that route. If you don't believe those things, and aren't willing to play him like a wrecking ball on offense, then I think you let him walk.

Nurkic is young, so I don't really know what he could become. He doesn't seem to have the dominant personality yet to dominate inside, and I'm not sure he ever will. If he could repeat that attitude he had in his first game as a Blazer against Denver in every game, then I do think he could be that kind of player. I also don't know if Stotts would/could use him in that way.

I just think it has to be one way or the other. If you pay him good money and then just use him as plus defender and occasional PnR target to take heat off Dame, then I'd rather let him walk and use Collins at C.

 

MM, I’m not a huge fan of his game, but we can’t just let him go. Who would start in the middle? He is just good enough to help Dame and CJ out there. Didn’t prove it in the playoffs, but I believe we would lose more games without him.

 

He played center vs us in the playoffs.

 

Why are you not a huge fan of Nurkic?

 

We would definitely lose more games without him... the real question: is he worth retaining at all cost when the current product can’t win a playoff series? We are already in a shitty cap situation... I don’t wan to dig the hole even deeper for a team that can’t win anything that matters. I think 13 mil would be a max if you want to maintain value. Even tho he still does good things, the game has kinda passed his style of ball... and the things that he lacks I don’t know if they are things that can be fixed. He seems to have a lack of motivation and constantly needs to be pushed to play hard... he has a zero inch vertical... and he has hands of stone. Those aren’t things that can be fixed with experience... so I think he has a cap and don’t want to overpay and add another negative value salary

 

I don’t think the Blazers will go the Allen Crabbe route and match a crazy offer for Nurk, but anything south of $15 M or so is a different story. Whether you think Nurk is the right guy for a contending team or not, you can’t deny that he has talent and that he’s a valuable asset. We all know that gettin guys like that to sign up in Portland isn’t an easy task. Nurk wants to be here.

Personally, I think Zach will grow into being the COTF, but he’s got a year or two of development to go first. Playing behind Nurk and some time at PF gives him time to grow. At the point that he’s ready to take the starting slot, Nurk will have value on the trade market.

 

I don't disagree. I just think this team needs to focus on getting better in the playoffs, and in my opinion, I don't think that's with Nurk

 

Didn't most of the great "traditional centers" also have unique abilities or freak measurements?

Wilt was the most freakish athlete EVER. His combination of size, strength, speed, leaping ability hasn't been seen before, or since he was in his prime - in any sport.

Hakeem and David Robinson were both rim protectors extraordinaire that could also lock down a PG 1-0n-1.

I guess I just don't understand what folks in this thread are referring to as "traditional centers". If a young Hakeem or David Robinson were in this draft, would you pass them over for a PG or 6'7" wing player because of the way the game has changed? Hell, would you pass over Anthony Davis in place of a guard or wing player?

I think the only reason we aren't seeing more "traditional centers" (however you want to define them) make it to the finals is mostly due to the lack of overall quality at that position, combined with the fact that LeBron is the Michael Jordan of his generation and the formation of super teams (like the Heattles and GSW). Remember, Michael won six rings without a dominate "traditional center", but that didn't scare ORL away from taking Shaq No. 1 overall. Nor did it prevent Shaq from winning 4 rings, or Duncan from winning 5.

Say what you want about Nurk's individual skills, but the fact is a full season of Nurk transformed POR's defense from one of the worst in the league into one of the best. Can he guard PGs 1-on-1 on the perimeter? No, but he shouldn't have to (at least not very often). He does a great job using his size and strength to jam up the pick and roll which allows Dame and C.J. to recover and leads to much less switching. Proper technique and strategy is just as effective at guarding the pick and roll as having a mobile center that can defend smaller players on the perimeter.

I still think a front court of Nurk, Collins and Motivated Moe could be great defensively even in today's NBA. Nurk does a good job jamming the pick and roll and Collins and Moe have the length and lateral quickness to defend smaller players.

Going small to try to beat GSW at their own game seems like a fool's errand. We only saw 16 minutes of Nurk against GSW in the 2017 playoffs, but the team was +8 in those 16 minutes. In the game this year on 2/14, when GSW was at full strength, Nurk played 30 minutes and was +5 (POR won by 6). I know the sample sizes are small, but it's not like GSW has abused POR when Nurk is on the floor.

The fact is GSW's small ball, Hampton's 5 lineup is a tough match up for any team. So, don't play to their strength, because the other fact is that when GSW goes small, Nurk can, and does, destroy them on the low block. Rather than try to out small ball the best small ball team in the history of the world, punish them for their lack of size at the other end and on the boards. We can't beat them at their game. Force them to play ours.

BNM

 

But how does NOT re-signing Nurk get us closer to winning in the POs? By not re-signing him we simply lose an asset and gain nothing - similar to the Crabbe situation, but worse because Nurk improves the team far more than Crabbe ever did or could.

 

I'd actually like to see Nurk and Collins play together in the playoffs before I make that call.

BNM