Nurkic is our 2nd best Player, and it's not even close

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Labinot41, Jan 1, 2019.

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  1. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Its still Dame and its not very close...
     
    TorturedBlazerFan, Jan 1, 2019
    #21
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  2. Cippy91

    Cippy91 Habitual Line Stepper

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    uhhhhh lol
     
    Cippy91, Jan 1, 2019
    #22
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  3. Bruno_Sabino

    Bruno_Sabino From Brasil (Belem-PA)

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    Glad you told me that. Cj still better player. He will bounce back
     
    Bruno_Sabino, Jan 2, 2019
    #23
  4. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see him and Damian develop better chemistry, like Strickland and sabonis had. Nurk should get more scoring opportunities
     
    beast blazer, Jan 2, 2019
    #24
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  5. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Nurk is probably our 2nd most valuable player but that doesn't mean he is our 2nd best scorer. Nurk is getting the right amount of shots.
     
    Pinwheel1, Jan 2, 2019
    #25
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  6. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Exactly. We are just a few weeks removed from Nurk putting up soft shots against Gasol and going something like 1-15. We need multiple attacks from the perimeter when Dame gets doubled. Nurk legitimizes our defense but his offense is nowhere near consistent. The only reason he's been getting doubled of late has been due to matchup issues and other teams not having centers.
     
    illmatic99, Jan 2, 2019
    #26
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  7. tlongII

    tlongII Legendary Poster

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    Is this true? That sucks if so.
     
    tlongII, Jan 2, 2019
    #27
  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    wut?

    PER: CJ 16.4....Nurkic 22.9 (CJ's career high is 19.9 but his average is 17.1)
    TS%: CJ .542....Nurkic .555
    FT Rate: CJ .170....Nurkic .441
    assist/36: CJ 2.7....Nurkic 3.9
    turnover/36: CJ 1.7....Nurkic 3.1
    winshares/48: CJ .093....Nurkic .173
    box plus/minus: CJ -0.6....Nurkic +5.1
    value over replacement: CJ 0.4....Nurkic 1.8
    Real plus/minus: CJ 0.21....Nurkic 3.59

    clearly, one player is outperforming the other and has a much higher impact. The only area CJ has any advantage is turnovers. But CJ doesn't get whistled for moving screens or player control fouls. And unlike CJ, Nurkic has shown himself to be a more than willing passer and he's usually making those passes from more congested areas of the floor

    and CJ fans keep saying things like CJ will "bounce back". Cj has already bounced back to his norms. The way he's playing now is the way he has played since he was elevated to starter. CJ had one year when his numbers were all much higher than his norms; but that season, 2016-17, is looking more and more like an outlier...a perfect storm of favorable conditions for him. The scouting book on CJ is more comprehensive now and I question if CJ had the depth of skills to overcome the way teams are playing him since that 16-17 season.

    that could even explain, partially, why his 3 point FG% has cratered this season. It looks to me like defenses are sticking close to CJ around the 3 point line, essentially conceding driving opportunities to him. Ir could easily be that teams have decided that CJ on the dribble is not a threat to swing a game from a loss to a win, or vice-versa
     
    wizenheimer, Jan 2, 2019
    #28
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  9. julius

    julius Living on the air in Cincinnati... Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I'm sure it's been said already, but I wonder how much of CJ's troubles are that he's got his?
     
    julius, Jan 2, 2019
    #29
  10. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    That's MY main trouble.
     
    THE HCP, Jan 2, 2019
    #30
  11. julius

    julius Living on the air in Cincinnati... Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Your main problem is that CJ got his?
     
    julius, Jan 2, 2019
    #31
  12. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    CJ got HCP's what?!?
     
    SlyPokerDog, Jan 2, 2019
    #32
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  13. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    This is actually pretty good for CJ (or really bad for Nurk...probably this one). Typically Cs/PFs should have a significantly higher FG% than guards, due to mostly taking higher-percentage shots.
     
    blue9, Jan 2, 2019
    #33
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  14. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    TS% offsets that a bit (not completely though). It accounts for the extra points for a 3 and for FT.

    It levels the playing field a bit to better see who is more efficient at scoring.
     
    tester551, Jan 2, 2019
    #34
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  15. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    For sure. But I still expect a larger disparity when comparing a SG to a C.
     
    blue9, Jan 2, 2019
    #35
  16. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    truthfully, it's not a good mark for either player considering the league average is around 55%

    some perspective:

    * among NBA SG's, CJ ranks 33rd out of 76 in TS%. He's tied with Nik Stauskas in shooting efficiency. Average ranking would be 38th with CJ at 33

    * if you expand the ranking to include PG's CJ is tied for 65th among 153 guards . Average ranking would be 76-77 with CJ at 65. So, he's a little above average as a shooter among his peers

    * meanwhile, among 44 C's, Nurkic ranks 32nd. So yeah, he's well below average among his peers.

    bottom line is that CJ averages 1.16 points/shot while Nurkic averages 1.26 points/shot. Further, because Nurk's draw-foul rate is much higher than CJ's there are ancillary benefits to Nurk taking more shots and CJ taking less
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
    wizenheimer, Jan 2, 2019
    #36
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  17. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    Ha - well there ya go!
     
    blue9, Jan 2, 2019
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  18. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ. Nurk has more assists per 36 as a center who handles the ball much less? Cj must be one of the worst passing guard of all time.
     
    beast blazer, Jan 3, 2019
    #38
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  19. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    not even close, but just for your information, Klay Thompson averages less assists per game than McCollum this year as does Eric Gordon ,Jeremy Lamb as well as Wesley Mathews and Buddy Hield.
     
    CupWizier, Jan 3, 2019
    #39
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  20. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I doubt that Klay handles the ball as much as CJ.
     
    Natebishop3, Jan 3, 2019
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