Science How This Decade of Archaeology Changed What We Know About Human Origins

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Naw, it is not incomprehensible. He simple proved mathematically that life requires the hand of god. Men can do all the steps of the grunt work to create life, but only God can make it live. Hell even in this advance day, some 50 years after the great logician
    did the math work, you can not find a man (human) that can create a life unless they begin with a living life.

    Given the uniqueness of our earth and it's attributes which allow us to live here, math says that God had a hand in that creation too, then the life that is only found here.
     
  2. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Have you read any of the logician's work?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  3. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    No, but I have read yours.
     
  4. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Give it a go!
     
  5. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    No thanx, I'm good.
     
  6. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I see. Well just to get it straight. You are willing to talk smack out your arse
    rather that learn from the foremost logician of the twentieth century?

    Is this the correct reading of, I'm good?

    If so,
    Carry on!
     
  7. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    Learn what?...you assume way too much.
     
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  8. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Ha!
    Hopeless hey! Sorry, I never thought of it that way.
     
  9. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    That does not surprise me in the least.
     
  10. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Well not much to say, but Carry on!
     
  11. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    Ditto. But try not to be so hard on yourself.
     
  12. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    If you think that was the purpose of my post then you missed the point entirely. I wasn't trying to prove anything, except how silly it is to think you can make a few "calculations" and then proudly proclaim, "virtually no chance for life to exist anywhere else". The rest of what I wrote was just illustrating- through the use of widely known facts- that if our solar system is any indication, the idea of life elsewhere doesn't seem farfetched at all.
     
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  13. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. My opinion is different then yours but, Im not gonna try to claim I have any proof, as I simply dont know. It would not surprise me either way.
     
  14. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    1. The Universe can be one of two things:
    a) It is the known Universe. This is the result of the Big Bang. The farthest reaches have been observed;
    b) There is a possible addition to our known Universe which may or man not exist. There is no reason to think it exists and little reason to think it does exist. However, the possibility can never be ruled out.
    2. Randomness is simply our inability to predict what's going on in sufficient detail. Perhaps in the future we'll get better at it. And, as Einstein said, God does not play dice.
    3. Our sun is a third generation star. We are the result of perhaps an explosion of a fourth generation star.
    4. I've heard of thousands of solar systems. Interestingly enough, almost all contain massive rocky planets such as the Earth only ten times as large. Very few are at the Goldilocks distance. Nearly all of those rocky planets are at a distance from their star that is within the orbit of our Mercury. How many got hit by a large enough object that would add it's iron core to ours making enough to create a magnetic field that could deflect our sun's radiation and yet small enough and at just the right angle to eject a molten glob that could become a moon just large enough to stabilize our wobble as we go around our sun? Impressive, huh.
    5. Planet 9 is way out beyond the orbit of Pluto. The planets in other systems are detected in ways that won't work in detecting a planet 9;
    6. I've never seen estimates of systems containing Earth size planets in the Goldilocks zone as you indicate. NEVER
    7. Your carbon bearing molecules are likely methane.
    8. Pluto has a single mountain range with mountains as high as 20,000 feet and it is icy. Are you suggesting that Pluto might have life? It's colder than hell there.
    9. Even the simplest of complex life on Earth never existed before there was life in the oceans that could produce oxygen for breathing.
    10. Your logic of "352 quintillion gallons of ocean water" is utter nonesense.
    I'm tired of this game and wish to quit. It is pointless.
     
  15. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    I've seen calculations that say dark matter is 9 times as massive as matter we can see. I've also seen it said that dark energy has 9 times the effective mass of dark matter. That means that there is 99 times as much effective mass as the known mass. Now, that's impressive. It's been calculated that dark energy will eventually expand the known universe to the point that even atoms will be ripped apart.
     
  16. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Let me help you there. The word supernatural means attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

    Godel's incompleteness theorem proves (as in, hard, cold cash proves, it is really misnamed as a theorem) that you can not prove every fact in an axiomatic system. Given that a supernatural is even beyond such a system - it is clear that you can not prove it's existence (or that it does not, for that matter).

    From here on, there are only 2 available options:

    1. Some sort of super-natural being

    or

    2. Pure randomness

    There is no proof, and can be no proof of either. Godel himself believed in #1 at the end of his days - but anyone that claims there is proof of the existence of God does not understand Godel's theorem. Simple as that.

    Personally, the only thing I believe in is that if option #1 is the right one - it does not look anywhere like anything the current religions claim it is - and if it is - it is not a super-being I care about, consequences be damned.

    For those that really care - Musk's simulation hypothesis is always interesting to read:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/scienc...-some-think-life-simulated-reality-ncna913926
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  17. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    But But But.... I was informed last night that Godel provided "mathematical proof".
     
  18. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    He provided mathematical proof of the inherent limitations of every formal axiomatic system - or in Jake Layman terms - every system has some axioms that you start with and prove other stuff with - in any system of that nature - you can not logically prove the axioms (and there is a very clever mathematical proof of that).

    From here - there are really several interpretation one can provide trying to apply it to the existence of god - but they are, as I mentioned above, come down to 2 options. Which one you choose to believe is really up to you - but proof - it certainly is not. If anything, it shows you can not prove it.

    Unfortunately, often people that do not understand the math read into stuff, put a spin on it and completely miss it.
     
  19. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Did I show some sort of misunderstanding in his theorem? I'm not sure why this is directed at me like I needed help understanding the logic behind it. Our personal beliefs aside, you quoted me literally saying, "Im not sure one can scientifically prove the existence of the supernatural", so I obviously understand Godel didn't prove it, nor did anyone else, and nor have they disproved it. Maybe I am misreading your tone here, but it seems to be, "hey idiot, I'm smart I'll tell you how math works...", and I don't quite get why, am I John Lennox, or Stephen Hawkings, mathematically, no but I'm also not that ignorant of how math works. *shrugs*.
     
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  20. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I would not say he provided any prove of the existence of God. I think he proved that randomness is incapable of producing life in this system. You are correct, he indeed did believe the creation of life requires assistance from outside our known system.
    You may extrapolate from there. This is good enough for me, it works. The anthropologists can continue to unravel the tale.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019

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