Honest question for Stotts supporters

I don't. I actually root every game for the team to succeed. As a fan why wouldn't anyone do the same?

 

Nope. Saw the whole game.

 

It has to end.

Not that a new coach is going to come in an miraculously turn this club around, but instead to at least try to instill growth and accountability for the younger players. As of now, I see none.

Ant is turning in to CJ 2.0. Little came in last night and thought a jab-step 20'er early in the shot clock was a good decision. GTJ is a black hole either because that is just his nature or he fears if the ball goes back to Simons, he will never ever ever ever ever see it again. When Skal was playing, he rarely would take the one type of shot that he is actually pretty good at...the wide open mid-range jumper.

And now worst of all, Dame is starting to sound like Stotts. The 'we just got outplayed' quote last night sounded way to much like, 'we just have to make shots' drivel from Stotts. THAT they were outplayed was obvious to Stevie Wonder. What about the 'how'? HOW the heck do you lose by 24 to the more than hapless Knicks? HOW does their back up center shoot 11-11 with not a single damn adjustment the entire game? HOW do you continue to have so little ball movement?

Stotts has enabled the veterans to pretty much do whatever they want on offense and have zero accountability on defense but now it is seeping over into the next generation and that just can't be. At this point, this is a development year. Ant, Little, Trent and Skal (if he returns) need a lot of run to see what you actually have on your roster...but with discipline.

It's not about winning games right now as that ship has sailed. But it is about HOW a team plays and more and more, this is becoming an apathetic free-for-all that is embarrassing due to lack of effort. Lose? Fine....but don't turn in the performances we have seen lately. Losing to the Lakers in a somewhat competitive manner has no shame....they just have more talent. But the regurgatated stomach bile that has been the last two efforts is unexceptable........period!

 

Agreed. But I think it needs to start at the top with Neil.

 

Seeing the Knicks and their new coach run more sets on offense while playing an engaging, aggressive defense while we played iso ball and let guys have wide open lanes to the basket was a startling contrast. It's the first time I've thought that Terry has actually lost this team. Injuries be damned but losses to GS/CLE/NY where we get thoroughly outclassed on either end just shouldn't happen.

 

I don't think he's to blame for all this. The Whiteside move was a gamble worth taking-- we have even seen how useful he can be while engaged. But I get why he isn't. From the moment he's gotten here, the talk has been about how Dame/CJ will get him in line, and while that's good in theory, it is reliant on him conforming to them, rather than vice versa. How many lobs have our guards thrown him this season? I think the Knicks threw more to Robinson in one night last game than Dame has thrown to HW all season. And he's on the last year of a deal with his replacement on a fast tracked rehab which will result in his benching. I don't think I'd have much motivation either to change my style of play all for half a season.

Neil also managed to get rid of ET's contract without giving up an asset. And he got a legit player in Hood for a bargain. Also expected Pau to at least play a few minutes every night, but that didn't work out either (his contract was great, btw). The Mario and Tolliver additions were inexcusable, but in reality they were third string players. The whole plan unfortunately was heavily reliant on Zach and Ant actually becoming starting level contributors. Always thought Neil's moves would bite us in the ass in the playoffs because of the lack of forward depth, but I figured we'd make moves at the deadline to address that.

I think our problem moreso has been the lack of cohesion with the pieces we have left after all the injuries. Yes this is an excuse, but I put it more on Terry.

 

Olshey has been in charge since May, 2012. We're approaching 8 years. And in that time, whenever things are going well for Portland, Olshey supporters will give Olshey all kinds of credit. And, when things are going badly, the same Olshey supporters will trot out excuse after excuse after excuse for why Olshey wasn't responsible...

I mean, who can forget the classic: "Paul Allen made Olshey spend all that money on bad players in 2016". That's how it went for years...when a move turned out good it was Olshey; when a move turned out bad it was Paul Allen

now, you're saying that Olshey got rid of Turner's contract, but the reality is he just traded a bad Turner expiring for a bad Bazemore expiring. It's still the 2016 albatross contract on Portland's books. Olshey had the Ezeli situation as a template to apply in the Pau situation. Just like Ezeli, Pau had off-season surgery (on a stress fracture which is even more risky), but Pau was 10 years older. Stupid risk. As far as Hezonja being 3rd string...no, that's not at all what Olshey claimed when he signed him and it was obvious that Olshey wanted Hezonja to fill Turner's role and run the 2nd unit offense....even though nothing in Hezonja's career really indicated he could. And nobody was compelling Olshey to put so much responsibility on Simons and Collins, leaving nothing behind either player. That was all Olshey forcing Stotts to play them, and it's turned out to be a bad bet this year

I'll stipulate that in many ways Olshey's hands were tied last summer, but Olshey supplied the rope and tied his hands himself. It sure looks like Portland is on a treadmill. It might be a little higher level treadmill than the standard, but still a treadmill. The architect is the GM

 

As I have repeatedly said here over the past three years, Neil deserves a ton of the blame for 2016. I have never once said PA is all to blame for that summer -- maybe others have, but not me. But getting out of that hell with all our future assets intact is much better than what other teams have to show for their 2016.

I thought his moves in the summer of 2019 were perfectly fine as I've outlined today.

 

I don't mind us firing Stotts at all but my question can Dame and CJ adjust there game to fit with the new coach. I think Dame can but I am not sure about CJ though just the way he plays now with Stotts.

 

CJ will be 29 next season... he is not changing. Every off season he says he will work on passing and nothing changes. ISO ball is in his DNA... it is what it is. Good player, but not a fit next to Dame.

 

CJ can play better basketball and he does, when Lillard is out.

 

don't get me wrong illmatic, I wasn't going after your post as much as I was using it as an excuse to climb up on a soap box. I'm seeing lots of blame being passed around for the mess right now: Stotts and schemes, Stotts and accountability, hero-ball, Dame's leadership, Whiteside and hollow stats, crappy bench. None of this stuff just fell out of the sky, it all loops back to the front office

 

The good thing is, it's mostly fixable with better health. We aren't hurt long term with anything that was done in 2019.

 

CJ's extension looks awful bloated right now and hurts his trade value, IMO. Of course, he won't be traded as long as Olshey is here. I think locking up the Dame/CJ duo for 5 more years will be a long term obstacle

 

It isn't. I mentioned in the other thread.

In 21-22, CJ will be the 28th highest paid player in the league, and will only keep dropping in the list after extensions kick in this upcoming summer and the one after. 31 million is not a death sentence, nor an obstacle. He's still a productive player in the middle of his prime. That contract is tradeable to the right team.

Also, fwiw. Dame is currently on track to be the highest paid player in the league in 22/23/and 24.

In aggregate, I think this is OK because we got such a steal with Nurk. In 2021, the three of them combined will make 85 mil, which is pretty decent compared to the other contracts around the league. As a reference, the combo of Dame/CJ/Whiteside make the same right now.

 

ok then, 26th this year, 28th two seasons from now

currently, CJ ranks (among players with 300 minutes or more):

96th in PER
193rd in TS% (tied with Pat Connaughton)
159th in eFG%
304th in FT rate
107th in assist rate (tied with Andrew Wiggins)
204th in winshares/48
147th in box plus/minus
96th in value over replacement (a stat influenced by possessions used, minutes, and opportunity)

CJ is/will be top-30 in salary; it would be helpful if he was top-30 in just one meaningful statistical category, but he can't even crack top-90. The only way you can get him into a top ranking is by narrowing the criteria to a really small definition like 'mid-range-shooting-percentage-after-37-dribbles'

something else...you mentioned how he'd be dropping lower as more extensions and contracts are signed, and that's true. But, just in the last 4 games, it's been apparent that Donovan Mitchell and Devin Booker have passed CJ. And in the next 2-3 years, it's probably the case that some players like Ja Morant, Trae Young, Malcolm Brogdon, Jalen Brown, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Jamal Murray, Fred Van Vleet, Brandon Ingram, Kelly Oubre, Pascal Siakam (already passed), Jayson Tatum, Jaren Jackson, Domantas Sabonis, and Bam Adebayo will pass CJ, if they haven't already. Sure, some aging stars will fade but there are a lot of good young players lined up, and the more of those that pass CJ, the worse his contract is

finally, it's not all just on CJ. It's on the pairing of Dame & CJ as well. Their synergy is mostly just 'my-turn-your-turn-my-turn-again'. They are simply too redundant in size, style, tendencies, bad habits, and weak defense.

 

We all know the advanced stats look at CJ poorly. This isn't anything new. The lack of synergy is my only concern and has always been. But we aren't replacing him with a player of his caliber if he were to leave in FA.

 

probably not, but it's not a case of just letting him walk. He could be traded, and trading him with that extension is going to be a lot harder than without it

 

Disagree. Players on the last year of their contracts have very little value for that very fear that they would walk. For a player in his prime without a sign of declining anytime over the tenure of his new deal, i think this extension makes him easier to trade.

 

But CJ was NOT on the last year of his contract. He was still under contract for the '20-'21 season.