Well sure, And I stated clearly as much. I'm probably not going to bare as much responsibility as you think I should though because the alternative at the time was not much better considering the Benghazi scandal. When you state paying attention, in a world spewing fake news constantly, what is to be believed and what isn't? I think the, not paying attention is subjective to what your willing to believe vs dismiss as fake news or inaccurate news, which BOTH sides have made it a policy to do it seems. So when you say not paying attention, I question what is to be paid attention to vs what isn't. I voted party line. I'm party of the evil conglomerate, I know...... My question is how much responsibility do you think I should bare and what do you think can be done to correct that burden? I think I'm doing just fine in trying to maintain a position of truth and not buying into either side's propaganda. I also don't think Trump is the doom and gloom end of the world president some make him out to be. Even if he is reelected, its four more years. Its not a lifetime. The country will move on and be better for it. Not going to fixate on hate or what I did wrong, when its the future that should be focused on and there are many people like me who now understand Trump isn't what we thought at first when we voted party line. His format was get rid of the politicians, and I agreed with that. Wanted a fresh perspective instead of someone always catering to their financiers. I was wrong. But I don't feel I should beg the country for forgiveness like it seems you are insinuating should be done.
I didn't insinuate anything. I personally don't care how much responsibility you accept--but I think "I didn't know" isn't a reprieve for supporting and voting for a racist, when all the information was out there. It's a cop out. Just like "I didn't vote for his racism, I voted for his anti-abortion stance" or "I didn't vote for his racism, I voted for 'something new' " are cop-outs. If you voted for a racist, you did support a racist. That's simply a fact, and you can excuse it however you'd like. I'm only saying these things because you responded to me with yourself as an example. I had no intention of calling you out or anyone else.
In my book - You can't be pro-life if you repeatedly vote for someone whose incompetency or evil caused tens of thousands to die unnecessarily. You can't be against racism if you repeatedly vote for a racist. You can't be a patriot if you repeatedly vote for someone that turned a blind-eye to bounties put on American troops heads. You can't be for equal rights if you repeatedly vote against women's right to their body. You can't call yourself a religious person if you continue to support a person that repeatedly goes against the teaching of that religion.
I'm not trying to dismiss or dodge responsibility, but really, the racism label is a bit of a stretch, as I have yet to see conclusive things that say he is a racist. I see spins of things to portray a likeness to racism, but i've never seen footage or read an article where he has actively made a racist comment or action. If you have some that are prior to 2016, Ill gladly watch and/or read and what not. Also, I didn't say you were insinuating, I said it seems you are. Maybe I'm wrong, but then the second part of your post continues to seem the same. Look. Again, I'm not trying to make light of anything. I'm only countering the amount of responsibility you seem to be saying everyone should take, when I don't think its as black and white as you are painting. I think many people weren't positive of much ion 2016 and thus, voted party line. It seems you are holding a verdict against anyone who voted for him based on your views, without really understanding the complexities of why someone would vote the way they did in 2016.
If you never read an article about him being a racist prior to him becoming president, then you almost had to intentionally be avoiding anything negative about him. Especially during the actual campaign. But I'll just throw out his housing discrimination lawsuits, his role or actions in regards to the Central Park 5, him being one of the first big "birthers" as 3 to start with. It was all there before the election, but he had the R next to his name, so a lot ignored it and now are trying to backtrack on it.
Of course I read articles of him being a racist, but they didn't have anything factual, Just opinions and spins. I also read articles about Hilary saying things I didn't believe because it didn't come with validified facts. Links to statements or actions from Trump proving him a racist? Because I don't believe every spin I read, I suppose I have my head in the sand? I can write an article about anything and post it online. Does it make it true?
Yes, this is the problem I have--people claiming their support of a racist demagogue is "complicated." Setting you and your reasons aside (because as I said in my edit, I wasn't intending to call you or anyone else out, you just responded to me and put yourself out as an example, so we talked about you), I read so many think pieces after the 2016 election about how many Trump voters "weren't racist" and they were just dealing with economic insecurity or a feeling of being "left behind," etc, etc. It sounds good superficially, but it leaves out a very important thing--while many Trump voters may not have voted for racism specifically, they all accepted racism in their candidate. Even if "economic insecurity" or "a reset of Washington" was their priority, they were willing to tolerate racism (and misogyny--I'll leave aside the homophobia and transphobia that Trump has shown since becoming President because I'm not sure that part was clear before the election). So they don't get a pass because "they had reasons more complicated than racism." Yes, they had non-racist reasons, but were okay with racism in order to vote for those non-racist reasons. I'm honestly not that interested in prosecuting your "I had no idea!" example, because I think the number of people who had "no idea" is incredibly small and not really a significant factor. The people I talk about above are the big problem (aside from the actual racists). So no, I understand "the complexities" (and read tons of articles about them and saw Jon Stewart--not exactly a right-wing icon--defend them) and reject them, for the reasons I laid out.
You keep bringing up racism as if it was a clear conviction that he was proven a racist. Again, Ill gladly read and/or watch anything showing him actually making a racist comment or racist action. There are/were plenty of opinion articles written, but lets see the proof that validates the opinion? If all of this info was readily available, then it shouldn't be too hard to pull some up and link them? I did a search. Not finding anything concrete.
What sort of proof would actually work for you, though? Its easy to point out racist actions, coded language, etc. but then easy for someone like yourself to need some sort of concrete proof like him calling someone the N word, or lynching someone as the only standard. I already referenced his housing discrimination lawsuits, the central park 5 stuff, his role in the birther stuff with Obama.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/ https://time.com/5597843/central-park-five-trump-history/ https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther.html It's impossible to prove what's "inside someone's heart," but if you look over a history like this and come away with, "Well, that doesn't PROVE racism so he probably isn't," then I think you're being willfully blind on the issue.
Thanks. Ill read up tonight. Could be a chance I read one or two, but not put into a list like this to be one after the other. Without having read them yet though, I do see most of these are dated close to election time in 2016. Why was it not made a bigger deal prior to, if it all adds up to racism? Or maybe igt was and im unaware? I fully admit, I knew next to nothing about Trump prior to him joining the race.
These were reported mostly in 2015 and 2016, the two years of his candidacy, because as a presidential candidate he was under greater scrutiny. All of these things were known before--the birther thing was reported from the time it happened, starting in 2011, his remarks about Hispanics took place when he announced for the presidency so couldn't have been reported about before, the discriminatory housing practices were reported in the normal way when events, like the lawsuits and Justice Department probes, happened. And the Central Park 5 thing was discussed when it happened and when they were exonerated but was back in focus once he became a candidate. It's much easier finding articles from 2015-16, not to mention those are the articles I'd expect people to see during the election cycle.
Give me a break. He LAUNCHED his campaign talking about Mexicans being rapists. And don’t forget or ignore that he is the original Obama birther. As racist as it gets.
links? Ill read up. But really. Im trying to educate myself and your gonna put me down for it? i mean really now.... this is a quick way to get people to not care. Ridicule people for not kNowing. Ridicule people for wanting to know... ridicule ridicule ridicule..... And then people wonder how can people be against the democratic party... well... stop the “better than thou” stance and help people educate themselves....
@Orion Bailey - Do you REALLY not know that he came down the escalator at Trump Tower to launch his campaign and talked about borders and Mexicans being rapists? I mean, that is common knowledge. But if you don't know that, then you don't, but in that case, I shouldn't have "ridiculed" you, but you should have been WAY more educated before voting.
that's hilarious that you believe that shit; he said they're bringing rapists...doesn't mean they all are; not hard to understand if you're not confused
