Politics The Postal Service, Voting, and Covid

Again, I have really said very little about voter fraud that's been mostly, you guys. I posted some links about VBM in the primaries and issues they've had. I've talked about election cheating which obviously goes way beyond voter fraud...
There’s plenty of incentive for the DNC and GOP to cheat. The group's sole purposes are fundraising, political power, and centralizing power within their elites. Seems like they have all the incentive in the world to do anything and everything they can to win.

The voter fraud issue seems to be mostly just partisan bullcrap.
I've even said that short term I think mail-in voting is the right way to go, so I'm not sure what the issue is lol.

 

You've made it clear that you don't trust both sides whereas I pretty much trust both sides except that I don't trust Republicans to not try to suppress voting by the disadvantaged. One politician in Pennsylvania admitted to suppressing voting by the disadvantaged by requiring ID to vote. Others are more sneaky about it.
Others may have queried you on the subject but you have made your position quite clear to me and I strongly suspect you've made your position very clear to others, as well.

 

I've posted already about the Heritage Foundations research into voting fraud....since 1998 in Oregon 14 attempts at fraud out of just under 56 million votes in 22 years.....that's damned low...for the republicans to campaign against mail in voting and refusal to fund the post office 90 days before a presidential election I think it's obvious which party is playing partisan politics here...and for the record I'm not a democrat but I'm now vehemently anti republican....they've lost all trust and reasonable doubt after refusing to respect Congressional subpoenas and refusing to work with democrats on issues as important as a deadly pandemic.....what is bullshit is washing that over because "both parties are partisan and probably cheat"......sorry...look to the Lincoln project and guys like George Bush to find that the GOP is losing it's own champions over refusing to hold Trump accountable....you don't need to have a political affiliation to sort out what's wrong with the current political mess but one should have strong convictions about failed government....which our government has definitely been in regards to covid response and an impeachment trial or protecting the Constitution

 

So you trust both sides except in all the occasions where you don't.

There are individuals I trust who call themselves Democrats and Republicans. The elites (for lack of a better term at the moment) of Republicans and Democrats I do not trust and there seems to be way more evidence out there to suggest they shouldn't be trusted than there is that they should be. Not just with the elections themselves but the actions of those who have won offices.

 

people I trust don't claim to be Democrats and Republicans...they have decided on one or the other

 

You can hate republicans and Trump and champion the Lincoln project or whatever you'd like I'm not stopping you. Nor am I campaigning against mail-in voting. I'm anti-Democrats and anti-Republicans in the colloquial sense of the elites who run them. I'd agree our government has failed us.

 

I guess I should have been more clear, I have people who I trust who are Democrats and some that are Republicans, I think you knew that's what I meant though...

 

Lanny just said he doesn't trust Republicans......

 

but, take a look at those links and analyze what they are really saying

the first is from a right wing think tank, and that think tank is one of the main go-to sources of propaganda for the R's when they try and justify voter suppression. I know that because I've seen them cited repeatedly by people like Kris Kobach and other right wing advocates of voter suppression; and I've been tracking this for years.

For chirssakes that fucking think tank was founded by Steve Bannon; also Peter Schweizer, another inmate at Breitbart...lol. Why the hell would anyone accept their "analysis" on face value?

And that 'report' they printed is slippery as hell. They make a big deal about using buzzwords and numbers that sound large, but when you follow the train a little further you end up with much much smaller numbers, and a large percentage of those numbers are unconfirmed

for instance, they say they found 7700 cases of 'likely' duplicate voting, but the reality is they only found 1200 cases of "confirmed" duplicate voting....out of 128M votes cast. In case you're wondering, that's .00009%. LOL.

they say they found 15,000 cases of 'illegal' addresses like PO boxes. How many of those cases were due to people not knowing those were invalid addresses. And how many of them actually voted and did any of those votes count, or were they all disqualified because of the addresses. That seems extremely likely and that's the system working, not failing; but you wouldn't know that if you were buying the tone of the supposed report

or that they found 1.8 million cases of deceased on voting rolls. There's almost no evidence at all there is any significant level of dead people voting...or of people voting in place of dead people. But doesn't that 1.8M number sound huge!! And, just how quickly should state election divisions remove dead people from rolls? Shouldn't they wait until they receive confirmation of death? How long does that take? I'd wager there's a much higher incidence of voters being declared ineligible because they have wrongly been listed as dead, that fraud from these registrations

That isn't a report at all...it's just an anecdotal collection of few small numbers and giant truckloads of innuendo and horseshit designed as cover for voter suppression. But more than that is the implication that this stuff is new. It's not; these are age-old issues, and none of it has undermined democracy like the republican jihad of voter suppression has

your other link was about 10 convictions for voter fraud in Oregon....out of over 2 million votes cast.

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certainly, you and I have different perspectives on this....and different biases I guess. You seem to find a basis for a 'pox-on-both-houses-both-sides-do-it' narrative that fits you overall view on things political

I view it as further evidence that the R's are using bullshit as the justification for massive voter suppression. And now, they are using the same bullshit as a loose justification for destroying the postal service. They have no interest at all in the integrity of elections...nothing could be more obvious.

think about it TB...you used a report from Steve Bannon as a justification of your position...really?

 

I was being sarcastic but I think you knew what I meant as well

 

I'm not championing the Lincoln project ....you probably need to see my political views steeped in hate, rage, whatever.....you're wrong though...I have children and grandchildren I give a shit about...that's my political base...and I'm proud to speak out against what I see as abject corruption and division....it's gone beyond rhetoric....we've lost our grip on global diplomacy and national unity under the current administration.....that's what we're dealing with....Trump and his partisan senate majority...I didn't make that happen but I'll sure as hell call it out when it goes off the rails and in my view....it's completely off the rails

 

Well here's a few things. I didn't really bring up voter-fraud. That was brought up to me. I have never made a big deal of it. I posted some links sure because I'm of the opinion and view that I don't like Democrats and Republicans (again the elites for the most part). That report isn't justification for my opinion on the subject of Democrats and Republicans, that justification is viewing politics my entire adult life and an opinion formed over that.
I've posted some links on Mail-in voting in other states and some issues they have had in the primaries. Which maybe they'll be fixed and fine by the time the election gets here in November. I haven't argued against mail-in voting though, just answered questions when they were directed at me.

 

I guess I didn't, but I apologize for misunderstanding what you said.

 

It doesn't matter who brings up a topic....but if we engage in it we open that door

 

Sure, but don't put words in my mouth about that topic and pretend I'm making a big deal over something I am not, or tell me I'm making arguments that I'm not. Which is what happened, I made a post not even about voter fraud and then was asked a series of questions about voter fraud and the implications were that I was making arguments that I never made.

 

I'm not telling you to do, say, write or think anything...you however are repeating yourself over and over again about voter fraud not being your topic....I expressed my opinion...that doesn't mean I require an argument from you if you differ from my opinion....it just means I have one..you're welcome to be apolitical as far as I'm concerned...or voice any opinion...to me the topic is interesting enough to engage...if it's frustrating for you to do that you don't have to.

 

You're completely free to feel however you want to, and have whatever views you would like to have.
You can be vehemently anti-republican (sorry I used the word hate), haven't ever implied you couldn't.

 

Well, we can talk about the USPS and that crap instead of my political views. I'm not frustrated I can answer questions, or whatever, I'm not looking for validation on my opinion's lol.

 

nope....not going to let that pass

you posted those two links in support of the implication that Democrats cheated in the last election. "Well, there's a really high likelihood of it"...your words. Neither one of those links offered a shred of evidence of Democratic cheating. In fact they offered no evidence of significant voter fraud

kind of hard for me to interpret intent but I'm capable of following a discussion. Maybe you really are moderate in your views. But when you keep posting right-wing talking points, the moderation is hard for me to see....sorry man

now, the majority of the posting here could be considered left wing, so I'll allow for a certain level of over-reaction the other direction. Pushback hyperbole and lord knows, I use hyperbole myself. But you might want to avoid citing Steve Bannon as a source