Trade Ideas Thread

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BonesJones, Apr 28, 2018.

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  1. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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  2. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I think most teams that can afford him will look at him as a net positive but not too much of one but teams like the Bucks and Sixers who need perimeter scoring and that's about all they need would see CJ as a huge net positive meaning they would actually send back some value for him not just contracts to match his. I think every team in the league besides maybe Golden State and Houston would take CJ for expiring contracts if they had the chance. I don't think any team would amnesty a guy that can score like CJ and portrays the attitude that CJ does, even if he is being overpaid.

    Do you think a lot of GMs would amnesty CJ and his contract if given the chance? If you don't then you view him as an asset even with that contract. Now I think our best trade partner is the Sixers because they have so many young defensive wings that they could give up Richardson and the also overpaid Harris and also likely their first rounder for CJ and Ariza. I think that makes them a better team and it makes us a better team. I think there are other trades out there like that but I don't know about them. GMs around the league have to know that Dame steps on CJ's toes offensively, that CJ is playing out of position defensively with an average defender next to him in the back court and they've also seen what CJ's numbers are like when Dame is out. The only problem I see on getting return for CJ isn't that he is seen as a net negative around the league but that Neil sees him as some sort of big time star that is almost untouchable and none of Dame, CJ, Neil and Terry seem to realize that Dame and CJ are a horrible on court match. I am not saying that CJ would be an all star in the East, I just think he could be the primary perimeter scoring option on a championship team built around better interior scorers and if that team surrounded him with defenders... that has a lot of value.
     
  3. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Did you consult your Magic 8 Ball to determine that the Blazers aren't going to make some moves?
     
  4. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    To answer your question in bold: Yes.

    I think the majority of GM's would think they could get at minimum an all-star player with $30m/year. Add to the fact that CJ has 3 years at $100m, that means 3 years of paying an all-nba salary to a non all-star.
     
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  5. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if those guys add up to the value of Oladipo plus Zach who is probably the most valuable piece in that trade is redundant for Indy, since they have Sabonis and Turner. They need a back up big but I doubt they would take three back ups for Oladipo, I imagine they could get a lot more for him. Mayb if we added some draft picks they'd go for it. As far as trading CJ, if Indy did do the trade I would see if we could get Harris and Thybulle for CJ from the Sixers (I think technically that would have to be two trades Harris for CJ and Thybulle for the Skal trade exception). Then you'd have Dame, Oladipo, Thybulle, Harris, Nurk, Gary, hopefully a healthy Hood, maybe Melo, and we'd need to use the MLE or at least part of it on a guy like Nerlens Noel who can be a backup in the post.
     
  6. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, I just disagree but that's fine... do you think that the Sixers would trade Harris and Richardson for CJ and Ariza? I only ask because Harris is even more so what you described CJ as being and Philly has players on their roster to fill Richardson's spot and would get Ariza's value.
     
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  7. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    You don't think GM's think $30m/year is all-star level money? You might be right, I'm curious on your opinion.

    I would assume the 76ers would jump at a Harris for CJ swap (it would save them money and probably be a talent upgrade). Not sure what they think of Richardson, but that's probably something they would do. Interesting idea!
     
  8. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I do think that they think that GMs view CJ as overpaid but not to the point that they would give up his talent for nothing. I don't think the Sixers would amnesty Harris or that we would either. I think very few if any teams would amnesty either of those guys but I might be wrong. To answer your question explicitly and explicitly, you're fucking right that GM's think $30m/year is all-star level money but again even in amnesty years people have kept non-all-stars on all-star contracts because their talent has been just too good to give up for nothing... even if you have to overpay them. If you're great at scoring in this league which CJ is and can do it in all the ways that CJ can, there isn't a GM out there that wouldn't take you on even at $30/year, it's just a matter of if they would give back a lot of value and Neil feels he needs a lot of value in return.
     
  9. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    if you're talking about getting approximately equivalent value & talent for a CJ trade, then I think the best Portland could hope for is something like CJ for Tobias Harris; or maybe CJ + 16 for Khris Middleton, but I think the Bucks would turn that down.

    Middleton is better than CJ and he's a 2-way player. Harris and CJ are about equal as players, but maybe both players would fit better on their new teams. Unfortunately, Harris has a worse contract than CJ so Portland would still be in the same boat with even less flexibility than they have now

    IMO, Portland is stuck in a cul-de-sac. They may have to back out. It may be that the best CJ deal is one than takes two steps back so they have a better way forward. A decent wing, maybe a pick, and some significant cap-relief might be the best CJ trade out there
     
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  10. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    You're certainly right about this. Teams like Portland, who don't have a lot of cap flexibilty and have a difficult time attracting free agents might not amnesty CJ. I certainly don't think Portland would. There is a big difference between amnesty an overpaid player on your roster and actively giving up assests to obtain an overpaid player. In trade scenarios, we need to find a trade partner who thinks CJ and his contract are of positive value in order for us to get anything that might put us in contention mix. I think the odds of us finding that trade partner willing to give us an upgrade in talent while taking on CJ's contract is highly unlikely.
     
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  11. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    Middleton is not better than CJ. C'mon man.
     
  12. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    Wait... seriously? I think you're being funny. CJ is a much better scorer than Middleton but CJ is also one of the best perimeter bucket getters in the game but that's all CJ is good for. Khris Middleton can also get buckets. He's actually more efficient than CJ, shooting a better percentage overall and from three but I still think given CJ's arsenal of different ways to score he's the better scorer and likely even the better passer than Middleton. The thing is that Middleton plays this thing called defense, it's on the other end of the court, where CJ is pretty much useless. So yeah, I think Middleton is better than CJ but I think we could get Middleton for CJ and picks... that's right not one first rounder but two. The good thing is I think we could trade CJ, our 2021 first and 2023 first for Middleton and that would get the job done.
     
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  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-9-30_9-20-27.png
    upload_2020-9-30_9-21-7.png
    CJ averaged 1.15 points/shot; Middleton averaged 1.37

    statistically, it's a slam-dunk in favor of Middleton, and that matches the eye-test, at least my eye-test. And those stats don't account for defense where Middleton has another advantage. Middleton is more versatile, and is also a true wing since he can play SG or SF, on both ends of the floor, and dribble-drive while operating outside-in. That has high value in the NBA.

    Middleton is a two-time all-star while CJ has never sniffed that distinction. And yeah, I know, I know...."CJ would be an all-star in the East" is a favorite talking point around here, even though that's easily debunked.

    if you like CJ more, fine. But there's no real basis for that bias. Neither player is elite, but by just about every measurable standard, Middleton is better. I even think he'd be a better fit on the Blazers than CJ as long as Dame is around
     
  14. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I think the Clips have shown their hand. They fired Rivers and they're gonna roll with the same crew with a new coach.
     
  15. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Not endorsing, just reporting:

    upload_2020-9-30_12-53-12.png

    Sixers could throw a pick to the Pacers, too.

    Blazers starters: Dame, Oladipo, Trent, Harris, Nurk.
    Blazers bench: pretty threadbare.
     
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  16. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Horribly undersized, injury prone, and overpaid lineup.
     
  17. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Yeah, I saw that proposal. I don't think that it moves the needle enough to be worth the effort. Oladipo is light years better than CJ on the defensive end of the court, but his offense is spotty at best. He's been injured a lot lately, so there's the worry about durability. We're giving up height in Zach and Ariza. Harris is good, but a bit undersized at PF. I still think that Zach and Simons have untapped potential. I don't know, this trade feels a bit like treading water.
     
  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I hope somebody figures out how to tap that potential before AARP issues Dame a membership card
     
  19. GDiama

    GDiama Well-Known Member

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    Well our 3 is undersized, but that can be covered by Hood if needed. The other positions are fine.
    Regarding overpaid I can see one overpaid which is Harris. All other contracts are ok.

    Injury proneness yes, Oladipo and Nurk are big questionmarks and we don't have the best history with that.
     
  20. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I'm not wedded to the idea of either of them remaining a Blazer, but I want to see a clear upgrade in talent if we do trade them. Zach needs to show more offensive potential than he has so far in order for me to consider him more than a role player. This should have been his breakout year. He's got one more year on his contract to show something worth getting an extension. Simons needs to stop looking like a damned deer in the headlights when he plays.
     
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