We have too many one-way players

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,387
    Likes Received:
    21,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    It would be nice to have players who are above average at BOTH offense and defense, but at most we have a couple (Nurk and maybe Trent, although he's a bit one-dimensional on offense). Meanwhile 5 rotation players are flat out dismal on D - Dame, CJ, Anfernee, Kanter and Melo. And although we've picked up two plus defenders in RoCo and Jones Jr., neither is great on offense (although RoCo, like Trent, is closest to being decent). Strikes me that the most successful teams have two-way players as their best players. LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, Tatum, Embiid, Donovan Mitchell...

    Denver is probably the most successful team last season that was in the same boat as us, although Jokic gets surprisingly good defensive ratings.
     
    Tince likes this.
  2. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    19,592
    Likes Received:
    16,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think there is hope that DJJ will become one and maybe Zach.
     
  3. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    66,305
    Likes Received:
    64,444
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you're selling some of these guys short....Rodney for one...Trent as well..he's hardly just one dimenional...defense is a string...the x factor to me will be having set rotations instead of 19 different starting lineups for a change....guys will develop chemistry on both sides of the floor....with the new defensive specialists we have...our other players won't get tired legs trying to stop Lebron in the paint...they won't have to ...big difference in my book....I also think Zach will become a good 2 way player...
     
    BonesJones likes this.
  4. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    14,729
    Likes Received:
    14,095
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm very happy we finally have 10 players worthy of minutes, but I agree with you 100%. Teams will continue to scheme to attack the 2-3 below average defenders we have on the floor and then on offense will do their best to leave our bad shooters open. This is true for every NBA team and I suppose if we had 5-6 players who were above average on both end of the floor, they would be making bank or playing elsewhere.

    I don't think Stotts is one to sub offense for defense at the end of close games when timeouts are being called, but we have the roster for him to do just that.
     
  5. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    19,592
    Likes Received:
    16,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would hope this roster improves all around on D as if you dont play D during practice scrimmage, you will get burnt.
    I could see Trent and DJJ going up against Dame & CJ in practice.
     
  6. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    18,868
    Likes Received:
    19,669
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You sold Dame way short on that list as well. I have seen Damian Lillard lock down Paul and Westbrook. He can do it. He just can't do it all game and still be asked to carry the load on the other end.
     
  7. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    Funny i was thinking the exact opposite after our moves this yr that we finally have at least 5-7 two way guys on the team
     
  8. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    30,244
    Likes Received:
    22,997
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who? The only ones that come to mind to me are Gary, Cov and Nurk. Maybe Dame on a good night. Who else? Rodney was never a good defender and he's coming off a major injury. Jones.....can't shoot. And CJ is....CJ.
     
  9. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,368
    Likes Received:
    38,405
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    One way players on other teams:

    Lakers: Caruso, Schroder, Harrell, Gasol, Kuzma

    Clippers: Beverly, Williams, Kennard, Patterson

    Blazers: Dame, CJ, Melo, Kanter, DJJ

    Nuggets: Murray, Jokic, MPJ, Harris, Green

    Heat: Herro, Robinson, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless

    Anfernee isnt part of the rotation starting the season IMO.

    We don't have more "one-way" players than other contending teams.
     
  10. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,114
    Likes Received:
    53,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    we have more than we did before.

    How many legit two way players do other contenders have? We just need guys who other teams won't target on either end or the floor. I mean, Melo/Kanter/Jones might be the only guys we might have trouble hiding. Hezonja/Tolliver/Whiteside are gone.
     
    Orion Bailey likes this.
  11. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    6,909
    Likes Received:
    6,780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One way players dont hurt much during the regular season. Opponents don't have days to game plan nor the desire to change their offense/defense to exploit.

    The playoffs are totally different, we've seen guys like Lou Williams and Rudy Gobert destroyed by other teams schemes in multiple series.

    In PDX weve seen it be a mess before with AminuHarkless. I do think its a real concern for guys like DJJ, Melo and Kanter. Now if we can have them in more limited minute or backup roles it greatly reduces the risk of being heavily exploited. Against certain opponents with plodding centers Kanter defense was actually decent. But if the opponent goes small they can play him off the court. Again not a big deal with a backup.

    Dame and CJ I dont consider as much one way because in playoff games they contribute more on D, especially if they can get some rest, and help on offense. They do coast more in the regular season but I'm mostly fine with that.
     
  12. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    42,404
    Likes Received:
    30,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    singer songwriter
    Location:
    Washington
    better to have this problem then the problem they had last year. Too many no way players.
     
    bobf, HailBlazers, RR7 and 6 others like this.
  13. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    6,909
    Likes Received:
    6,780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Also, I think it greatly depends how extreme the specialist is. Are we talking about a guy who's a bottom 30% defender? Some might have Dame there. Or are we talking about a bottom 5% defender? Dame definitely isn't in the second group.

    Being weaker on defense or offense just means you need to contribute more on the other end and get extra help from teammates where you struggle. But being a bottom 5% player on either end turns it into 4v5 and can really start to collapse that side for your team in the playoffs. Its really when a player is super terrible on one side we need to be concerned.

    Its very normal to have players stronger on one side than the other and that is fine as long as its not extremely bad on one end.
     
  14. BoomChakaLaka

    BoomChakaLaka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,376
    Likes Received:
    2,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Designer / Artist
    Location:
    San Miguel de Allende, Mexico (formerly PDX)
    I’m concerned with team chemistry. In my opinion, Dame and CJ have never played well together. CJ excels when Dame sits and he has the ball in his hands.

    Start CJ and Gary Trent, as Trent brings more defense. Then, Dame becomes 6th man of the year. He comes in for CJ and he comes in with Melo! This approach keeps Melo’s nose in place and not out of joint and doesn’t disparage CJ by not having him start.

    Dame always “let’s the game come to him” and is never dominant in the first 8 minutes of a game. So have he and Melo come in for CJ and RoCo - unmatched fire power coming in at minute 7 or 8. Dame won’t mind. Shoot, he can stay in for the rest of the game for all I care.

    This rotation would completely throw off the opponent as well. By the half we’d be up by 15 on average.

    Just a unique idea is all.

    CJ
    Trent
    Hood
    RoCo
    Nurk

    Dame and Melo enter

    Dame
    Trent / Ant
    Hood / Jones
    Melo / Collins
    Nurk / Kantor
     
  15. BoomChakaLaka

    BoomChakaLaka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,376
    Likes Received:
    2,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Designer / Artist
    Location:
    San Miguel de Allende, Mexico (formerly PDX)
    Love our depth!!
     
    42N8Bounce likes this.
  16. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,368
    Likes Received:
    38,405
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Did you seriously say to bring Dame off the bench?... really?
     
  17. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    6,909
    Likes Received:
    6,780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think some NBA teams would do great to have their best player come off the bench and 5-6th best start. Closest weve seen of this is Manu, but it just seems like NBA players egos won't accept coming off the bench until we see a prime superstar embrace it.
     
  18. Labinot41

    Labinot41 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,237
    Likes Received:
    8,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I dont care that Roco and Jones aren’t that great on offense, we have two guys who can and have the mentality to guard the opponents best Player. How many Times we have seen that one guy killed the Blazers in the past? Covington and Jones are way better defenders than Aminu and Harkless. It feels great that we have two guys who are able to lock up guys like Booker or Harden or whoever
     
    HailBlazers and blazerkor like this.
  19. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,909
    Likes Received:
    14,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As Katie Nolan used to say when she was on Fox..."but why tho?" Why in the fuck wouldn't we start with Lillard. Manu was not the best player on his team, the idea that he ever was is a misnomer. Manu only played the last two seasons of his career without Tim Duncan and while Duncan didn't retire in his prime, the last four years of Manu's career were far from prime as well. No one ever talked about Duncan coming off the bench because it would have been asinine. Dame is the best player on this team and it's by a fucking mile, so no, we don't sit him to begin games, get real. If anyone should sit it should be CJ. We should see how we can get along on offense playing Gary instead of CJ and if we can do it we should trade CJ's no defense playing, ball stalling... very well mannered and even better spoken ass.
     
    RoseCityRebel likes this.
  20. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,909
    Likes Received:
    14,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Never mind, you're actually right... in fact why don't we sit our seven best players to start the game, that should really confuse our opponents and give our best guys some rest so they can finish strong. In fact we should just have all of worst players start and pledge to give the other team the ball to let them score the first twenty points of the game... now that would show the other team that we mean business and make sure we've both give them a different look and they won't know what hit them (besides the copious scouting reports our opponents have) when we start trying. Yeah, you're right, sit Dame and the rest of the ten rotation level NBA players for a while and let the other guys play. It makes all the sense in the world now.
     

Share This Page