This is it. We will never be a good defensive team with this roster. Even in 18-19, Curry, Turner and Collins were all plus defenders coming off the bench. Cannot replace that with Melo, Simons, Hood and Kanter and expect that to be the same. Problem is our offense isn't even good with those guys coming off the bench, so what the hell is the point of those 4?
I don't see any real relevance to that. We've been talking about team defense and team defensiveness rating. Definite correlations between that and winning rings, at least insofar as correlation = rings and ratings. Obviously, that isn't the only factor at work but the fact that 18 of 20 last NBA champions have been top-10 in defense, and about half of 18 were top-5 pretty much guarantees a team ranking 28th in defense won't be winning any championships. pretty clear that elite teams will be excellent in either defense of offense, but they'll still likely be really good in the 'weaker' half of their games If Portland wants to be a contender they need to improve dramatically at defense, and it's really doubtful that could ever happen with the roster they have right now
it has always been a race to the most buckets. But there are two ways to win the race: score a lot or keep the other guys from scoring a lot. Actually best plan is to score a lot AND keep the other guys from scoring a lot. That's where championships are made
Portland in my view is a contender......and it's fine if you want to disregard my opinion about a team like Memphis never having playoff success with a great defensive team...or first team defensive players who are ringless as well...as far as "we are talking about"......if it's a private conversation use pm....here, my opinion is part of the "we" equation.
We have won more games locking down the 4th qtr and getting stops than we have chucking jumpers....what we have done is make game changing buckets when it counts...something great teams can do...turn it on and finish strong. Our 4th qtr game has been pretty impressive in wins.
Some of the best defenders in the NBA aren't even that athletic compared to players who should be great defensively. It's about effort, accountability, technique, and scheme in my opinion. Sure there are outliers like Meyers Leonard doesn't process the game fast enough to be a good help defender, but for the most part you can have a good defense just by teaching them how to be in synch. Look at NY this year with basically the same roster as an example of that. Dame and CJ after 9/8 years under Stotts still don't even know how to properly go through a pick and are constantly falling asleep off ball. A good coach could clean these bad habits up and the defense by default would be in the top-20. Start implementing better game plans for specific opponents and the personnel is absolutely good enough to be middle of the road. There is no excuse for it being this bad and not really doing much to change anything either scheme wise or bringing in an assistant who can get more out of them.
you are really missing the point. It's not that good defensive teams can be average. That's dog-bites-man news. The point is that contenders are almost always good defensively. Both things are true that's fine....except that we were talking about the playoffs and more specifically, making it to the finals. Let me know the next time Portland plays lock down defense in the 4th Q of a WCF game and wins locking down in the 4th Q of a regular season game against Charlotte or Sacramento is not the same as locking down the Lakers in the 4thQ of a playoff game
I'm actually not missing anything....I'm debating the point that elite defense translates to championship success and finals appearances.....I don't know what "dog bites man news means" Maybe a Sly reference? Some might say ratings and charts are dog sells ideas news. There's a point being missed here but it's not me missing it. "Almost always good" didn't sell me.
then support your argument. Just repeating your mantra isn't evidence I've listed the last 20 NBA champions and 18 of 20 were top 10 in defense. About 9 or 10 were top-5. Last year, in the finals, it was #3 vs #11 and #3 won. The year before that it was #5 vs #13 and #5 won. The year before that, Golden State won with the 11th rated defense, and that was the only team to win without a top-10 defense in 19 years
I have been supporting my view ....I read your charts and graphs....they say nothing about how the games are called, who the refs are....which games Donaghy betted on...etc...according to the topic the number 1 defense should win every year...championships are not achieved by formulas ...they are speckled with intangibles and teams ratings are affected by those things....getting calls. I agree with everyone that defense is important to wins....not as important as offensive exectution, but important....with the 3 pt shot the long rebound has changed defensive stats ...transition buckets are a big part of that ....players don't play half court sets like the old school teams..and the league is adapting to a changing game...it's fine to put your trust in those stats, it just isn't the bottom line as to success....there's luck involved as well....if Dame and CJ are so lazy and incapable of getting through a defender, they'd never score in the paint or blow by a defender....they do both those things and both guys are improved this season on that end of the ball...our best defense is usually in the 4th qtr....which is a good time to have it...as to repeating my mantra that's simple...Go Blazers!
I just wanted to pop in and let everyone know that nobody has convinced anyone of anything and everyone's opinions remain the same. Carry on
That's where I'm at..but respect for opposing opinions concerning Stotts fans is seriously lacking ...it is a Fire Stotts thread....as a big fan of Stotts I'll express why I'm a fan...more people spend time trying to sell me on why he's never going to have success than agree to disagree...hence...debates happen
I agree with that. You do have to play well on both sides of the ball. I also agree the very best teams do have the ability to get stops at crucial times. Doesn't always correlate to having a top 5 defense. A top 10 defense is what even Stotts says he wants to see. What i am seeing is this team starting to gel a bit on defense. They are starting to see each other on that end and communicate better. They have some issues with personnel that could be helped with some health. In essence i feel they need Nurk back playing at a high level. That would help a bunch. The team seems to be playing with better energy in crunch time. I hope it continues. If they continue to improve i don't really care what their season ranking is. I want them healthy and playing well in the playoffs. It would really help to have a good enough record/seed to not have to play their way into the playoffs. Rest will be huge like always.
What is your explination for the big change in 2017-18 if nothing changes from a scheme standpoint and the personel isn't the main cause for defensive rankings?
Its because of the way in which people attack Stotts criticism or the way in which they argue their pro-Stotts viewpoints. Not because of the viewpoint itself.
nah....I don't post that someone who wants to fire Stotts will do it just because they're happy with mediocrity....just an example...if I say Stotts develops his bench at the expense of defensive stats....that's not me attacking people who just hate the guy and rage about his style of coaching.....to tell me I'm not justified in my Stotts appreciation is not me attacking a view...it's a theme about Stotts detractors that's gone on for many years now...this isn't something new at all. I'd love to talk basketball without the condescension but there's a contingency that seems to need that angst. I also believe superstar teams get calls that prop up their stats.....see any team Lebron is on. We don't get calls...never have....so when refs don't let you play defense....the playing field isn't equal. The worst thing to me about the league is the lack of parity calling games. For the record...Dame agrees with my opinion about Stotts and the refs
ok fine....I just didn't see any support; still don't. In the middle of a discussion about a correlation between good team defense and NBA champions, you started talking about Rudy Gobert and the Memphis Grizzlies. Tangents that aren't really relevant to what was being discussed. Excellent defensive teams can be average overall teams. Happens all the time. That does not disprove the correlation....like this season: the Knicks are #2 in the league in defense, and #1 in opponent 3ptFG%, but are only one game over .500 with 13 other teams having a better record. Short of a miracle trade, they probably aren't going anywhere in the playoffs as far as DPOY not winning a championship the same year....forget about that. In the last 20 years, only 4 MVP's have won a championship the year they won MVP. Curry in 2015; Lebron in 2012-13; and Tim Duncan 19 years ago. Championships are won by the team
