jesus. Those are cameras!!! What the hell am i not reading? My bootlicking fetish... nice. When all else fails resort to insults huh? lol. Anyhow. You have yet to answer my question about the cops with body cams pushing through the crowd or my question about how to fund all of this and make it happen when everything was shut down last year. So plain clothes cops and cameras would solve everything.l? I wont insult you and call you a criminal supporter or anything like that. That woudl be somewhat immature in an attempt to try to have an up and up conversation. Ill just disagree and think you are wrong. enjoy your day sir.
This is the line of thinking that gets me into trouble. Just because i cant think of another reason Doesnt mean there isn't one....
If I knew, I would tell you but I don't know so I believe there is a possibility of other reasons. I am only a layman on the subject. Also, I can't figure out why they wouldn't want the evidence.
Why would you try pushing through a bunch of innocent people when you already have plain clothes officers on the person who committed the crime with video evidence of the whole thing? That person is going to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. See what I mean? You're literally just making excuses to argue. You don't actually seem to want solutions. You're not making any good points, just being argumentative and defensive.
With the Covid-19 virus limiting jail space they must give tickets to the majority of such cases reserving jail time for only the most heinous crimes.
Because they don't want to be incriminated (or incriminate their pals) for behaving the way too many police officers do nowadays. Which is the reason we have nationwide protests. They want to be able to walk up to a guy who is asking a question and beat him with a billy club.
I thought that pretty much died out decades ago. I remember friends involved in the Portland blocks beatings by police back in 1970. But I haven't heard of it since. I remember when George Bush the son visited Portland back in about 2004. My niece had reserved a meeting room in the Heathman hotel for a big party for her husband's 40th birthday. Her husband was a vice president of CH2MHill, the largest consulting engineering company in the world so it was quite a party. That same day George Bush was in town so there was a police barricade about one block away from where Bush was staying at the Hilton. While at the party I had the privilege of meeting with and having a long conversation with Mark O. Hatfield. The barricade must have been about 50 feet from the front door of the Heathman. We had to park near the park blocks so we had to pass first quite a few protestors and then the police barricade. Everyone was so polite to us, the protestors and the police who had to open the barricade to let us through. Our meeting room was right directly above a protest between the protestors and the police so we had a Birdseye view of all the action except there was no action except for a few raised fists and a lot of yelling. Why didn't the police beat up some of the protestors?
That video was from this last year. There are dozens more. The police are far more militarized now than they were under Bush, largely because of Bush's regime, but Obama didn't do much to curtail it either (quite the opposite, actually). Also, those people weren't protesting for greater restrictions and penalties for police, as has been happening recently. People also weren't as angry because we hadn't had a recession in years, and people hadn't seen video of police shooting and beating innocent people, then read about those police receiving little to no punishment. Things have been getting worse for a while now.
are you forgetting when unmarked men tossed people in vans? Do you really think plain clothed police starting to apprehend someone isnt going to cause a major deal and have repercussions on the spot? Im not trying to argue. Im simply pointing out things that i dont feel you have factored into your rationale or you wouldn't have such a stance. Am i not allowed to bring that up without you making it personal?? Im trying to play the scene out that you say will work. I see plain clothed police being attacked in return. i dont see it working. When i point out reasons why, you spin circles. You dont actually address my points of difference. i Am reading what you are saying. It just doesnt make sense in the big picture based off historical footage of previous events how they occur, the crowds response, etc. The crimes mostly happen at night. And not in the same area. Yet you are saying they should have had cameras up everywhere with drones and undercover cops with cameras. And you are saying that would have been the answer and is the answer. Again i don't think you are equating all factors into your rationale. i call it disagreeing with you and pointing out reasons why. As for your last sentence i could say the exact same thing about you. I keep pointing out reasons i dont think your opinion would work. Im sorry if that offends you or whatever. people can disagree without being demeaning ya know.....
I think you are also underselling the crowds cover and protection of the criminals. every single time cops have tried to make arrests its turned into chaos. because the protestors are, in part, protecting the criminals. in the end though this is all stupid judgmental bullshit. It really is black and white. We all know what a wrong is and its up to all of us to stand up for humanity and call it out and try to stop it when it occurs. That's what good, caring people do. To defend any other response to me is only aiding to the derailment of the situation at hand. Obviously with asterisks.
Right, people threw a fit over abductions because those unmarked men did not say who they were and commenced abducting people who were doing nothing wrong. Plain clothes police officers would follow the person who committed the crime, arrest them, read them their rights, show their badge, have VIDEO EVIDENCE, etc. Not just grab people standing on the side of the road and throw them in an unmarked van. COMPLETELY different scenario. How long do you think it takes to set up a camera? How long do you think it takes to get a plane over a crowd? These people start congregating and remain there for HOURS. I'm literally picking apart every one of your concerns, but you just don't want to hear it. The REFUSAL TO TRY is a huge red flag. The main job of police is to GATHER EVIDENCE. Yet they refuse to use VIDEO. You're right. We disagree. I believe in actually trying to solve the problem, using EVIDENCE. Rather than just arresting random people and complaining that the poor police aren't allowed to violate the constitutional rights of our citizens.
I can only assume you have plenty of evidence to support this claim. Roll the video. I'll get some popcorn, considering there have been literally thousands of arrests...
who said arrest random people? More of your spin? lol. id say it takes alot longer to get a plane in the air than it does to smash a window. You disagree? id also say it takes less time to smash a window than it does for someone operating a camera to zero in and track someone running from a scene and around corners when they can hide from aerial views under trees, turn the corner from a camera on a building side. Not to mention( though i have several times) that most all wear mask, dress in black and look close to the same. Again i think you are vastly underestimating how easy it is to smash a window and get away regardless of cameras. You are talking about a super expensive way to catch a vandal, btw, planes in the air and such.... Screw that. Have the protestors stand aside when the cops go through the line to go after criminals, or get arrested for aiding and a bedding. Period. As a tax payer, screw spending exhorbinate amount of funds only to avoid confronting those who want to protect criminals. Of course cameras should be used. But the FACT is there are people who claim innocence while actively and purposely making it harder for the cops to do thier job by creating human blockades and such and then when the cops have to use force to get through or detain they are resisted. your continual dismissal of this is a huge red flag... Your way is not utilized currently in most cities because its not financially realistic. Or it would be done already. Do you disagree with that? And if you do disagree then can you please provide reasoning as to why it isn't currently a widespread utilization?
lol. If you haven't seen it in the last year, nothing i show you will get through to you. if you think all who were arrested downtown went peacefully and if you don't think the cops dealt with other protestors harassing them while trying to do their job.. well that is quite alarming... and innacurate. fact is there are multiple sects that could and should have the finger pointed at. But for some reason its okay to point at the cops and only the cops as being the only ones at fault. just soo innacurate... Listen im not trying to fight, simply looking to discuss differences of opinions currently. I believe there is alot more going on down town and its not all always goign to fall in line to make it easy for your ideas to work. Hostile crowds not wanting to help cops make it very difficult to do thier job and the moment a plain clothed officer attempts an arrest he is outed. So unless you want a one to one ratio, which is completely unrealistic financially, i dont see how having a few cops undercover in a crowd will be able to keep up with a smash and runner even with eyes in the sky. Now we can disagree on how fast we think the criminals will get away but we dont have to be insulting or belittling over it. I dont know if you have, but i have lived on the streets of portland and i know how sly the criminals are. They know downtown very well. How to get away. Where to hide. I just think there is a vast underestimation of how quick it is for these guys to smash and run and get away.
Most cities have body cams. In fact, every other large city in the country uses body cams. So yes, EVERY other city is doing more than Portland. High definition cameras do not need to zero in on anything. And no, a plane over the city is not expensive. Cities in this country have done this all day every day for years at a time. They do this to catch drug dealers. This is not new technology. This is not expensive technology. If this is as big a problem as you and the police want us to believe it should certainly be a bigger deal than some drug dealer. Yeah, if you have evidence that somebody interfered with police I'm fine with arresting them. But doing it without evidence will just be a waste of time. And no amount of bitching is going to change that. The police are responsible for gathering evidence to keep order. They are doing neither and things are out of control because they are not doing their jobs. I'm not paying anybody else, so I can't hold them accountable.
Are there police transgressions? Of course, but I wouldn't paint the majority of police with that description.
once again. A body cam only works if that person has a visual of the crime from the outset. yes a plane to fly in the air is expensive. and again no. Regular law enforcement is not doing that. The dea is not local police enforcement. Its a fed entity. Show me any local city police that use plane drones to capture vandals. Ill be waiting....... Not dea. And not as a test start up. Im saying this is how they have been doing it. What city police force? again. Should they use cameras? Yes. will they help? Probably. what will also help? The protestors not hindering the investigation for evidence. And this is the point of contention i have with your stance. You are willing to go way out of the way and make evidence gathering harder by supporting those hindering the investigation. thats the flaw. You seem to think this isnt happening or you are simply ignoring it. thats the flaw. you refusal to acknowledge how difficult it will be to do what your saying in a crowd trying to hinder them from doing what you are saying. I see you didnt answer my question about one to one ratio or the plain clothed cop being outed. A one to one ratio of cops would be very expensive on the payroll. You are simply dismissing things to maintain your assertion that the cops are all failing and protestors and rioters are all 100% in the right until evidence is gathered. thats simply wrong. No matter how you try to spin it. If you cant hold the protestors responsible for hindering the gathering of evidence you demand, then you wrong. Again there are multiple sects at fault. You refuse to acknowledge that and think its all a cop issue. There is such a thing as unwritten human laws of rights? If you think its fine for one human to not speak up against another doing wrong regardless if thats the cops job or not, i have no clue what to tell you. If you dont think there are people downtown actively trying to curtail the cops jobs, again i dont know what to tell ya.... ive got a bridge for sale?
When officers try to go through a crowd to get at a criminal and they push back on the cops, what evidence do you need?? its been caught on video alot. Some people only see what they want to see though. i mean imagine being a person who grew up wanting to help people. You becoem a cop. Your told to go outside and protect a building from vandalism. While protecting the building you recieve a never ending onslaught of vulgar hateful words screamed at you right in your face?? cops are human too. Not Gods. They have emotions too. Not all cops are bad. Some people have been brainwashed into thinking this just like some people have been brainwashed into thinking all blacks are criminals. No difference in the brainwashing. Just a different brain. Same wash....
