Great post! I’m all for free community college, because that’s where most kids out of high school need to go if they really want to get a solid (and early) footing in the work force. But why should I pay tuition for people who really had NO business attending a four year college in the first place?? Scholarships and grants exist to help those who actually belong at a four year school but might need financial assistance. My wife and I are just finishing paying off the college tuition of a certain poster who graduated in 2005 from a local public university (and he ended up getting a terrific job). And that is the way it’s supposed to be. We made the deal with our sons that as long as they stayed in school and made the grades, we would foot the bill. If they didn’t, the whole thing was on them. Now that we’re seeing daylight I’m supposed to pick up the tab for someone else’s kid??? For degrees the world doesn’t really need?? Fuck that. I’m all universal healthcare and some of the other pie in the sky stuff the progressives are pushing, but canceling or reducing student debt is not one of them. It’s like saying I need a fancy, fully loaded car to get from Point A to Point B and expecting my fellow citizens to provide it, all while public transportation already exists. We need to help those who actually need help through no fault of their own, not enable people who are victims of their own ill considered decisions.
That statement kind of proves my point. When you went to college,, even after you were married and had kids, college was far more affordable. Since 1963, the cost of going to college has increased 143%, which is well above the inflation rate. When my parents went to college, it was about 400 bucks a *QUARTER*. The cost to go to college now? PSU, OSU and UO are currently, if you live off campus, over 10K per year. In fact, OSU and PSU are both over 12K now. And that's just tuition. Let's not act like you can just 'work' and go to college like you used to be able to. Yes, there are scholarships/pell grants, etc, but the costs of college has totally go out of whack with inflation and what the average person can afford to send their kids to school. And unlike other loans, you can't file bankruptcy if the shit hits the fan. It's a racket. And not only that, your own kids are old enough to have kids in college, so they're probably in their 40's or maybe even late 40's. College *20*+ years ago was more affordable than it is now. There are stories of people (myself included) who have paid on their student loans for years (in my case, 10+ years) and have paid more than the minimum, and owe the same amount that I did when I left. Student loan debt isn't good debt. A house is a good debt. But student loan debt can be restrictive when it comes to getting a loan for a house. And yes, I understand that I agreed to take on a student loan, but it's pretty much a ponzi scheme. To succeed in the field you need to get this degree, but to get this degree you need to pay 30K in student loans, because universities are a racket.
So why not fix the problem at the source, the overspending of these universities, rather than just handing tax dollars to students? I'm all for making college more affordable, but giving away money is only going to make the problem of university overspending WORSE not better. This is putting a band aid over a gaping wound and thinking you fixed the problem.
More, it's a small step in the right direction. Unfortunately we refused to take a large step and put that past to bed. It's unfortunate, but we were so far off the rails we had to settle for Biden just to start heading in the right general direction again...
That's a small % of the student loan debt though. Yes, there are those who had no business attending college (etc) or who perpetually take on more and more student loan debt, but that's not the majority. Thing is, the majority of people can't do that. My parents couldn't afford to pay for me or my siblings college tuition, and I grew up in the 80's when it was cheap. Considering you already pay for peoples education, wars, loans to other countries, loans to farmers, loans/tax cuts to big businesses, financial incentives for businesses... Actually, it'd be more like making it so people who received student loans because their parents weren't wealthy enough to pay for it, are given a chance to get out from the debt that they can't file bankruptcy from. It's absolutely nothing like getting a fully loaded car. It's more like buying a car and then paying it down for a long time and never being able ot get out of paying it back and it hamstringing you in getting a house. Again, those "ill considered decisions" are a small % of the total. What about people who wanted to be teachers? To do that, you need a masters, but once you get out of grad school, your student loans are spendy. A friend of mine did that, and had to change jobs because the pay wasn't enough for her to pay her loans + rent (and life, etc). Since her job of choice required a masters, but didn't pay well....
I'm fine with the over spending of those universities, but where do you think that money will come from? The same place (and probably at a higher cost) than it would to do something about the student loan debt (I don't think 50K a person is a reasonable or realistic goal though).
The whole thing is set up to gouge young adults. It's absurd. The text books especially are a blatant way for them to steal money from kids. Higher education in America is shameful.
I agree with a lot of what you say. Its very important that all options are discussed and considered. A good percentage of kids that go to Universities could go to a community college or trade school of some sort. Why cant a kid work part time while going to school full time. I did it and was married with a kid. Its no different now, time is time. Don't forget, kids regardless if in school or not, want the creature comforts like cell phones, taco bell money for gas and clothes and dating/partying.
I’m gonna open up a can of worms and just say that NO ONE is entitled to a higher education as part of the American social contract. Especially not one provided out of the wallets of others. It is not a right, it is a privilege. As HCP pointed out, he joined the service for future educational benefits. In other words, he sacrificed 3(?) years of his life. He made a deal with the government and the government kept it’s part of the deal (how refreshing). Most people turn up their noses at that option and that’s okay. It’s all about choices. I had no desire to go to college and went into the service (another “educational” opportunity) to try and learn a useful skill. The post service educational benefits didn’t even register with me. Yet when I got out, those benefits not only paid my tuition, they helped defray my family’s living expenses. And the AS degree helped me progress in my chosen profession. My point is that we made use of an available option and avoided being saddled with long term debt at a time in our lives we could not afford it. I’m not down on a four year education. My point is that it is not for everyone. Rather than gouge taxpayers further, work to change the system. Require the colleges who are charging such exorbitant tuitions to rebate at least part of those tuitions back out of their endowment funds (or wherever). Or start boycotting four year colleges until they make education more affordable. A four year degree should NOT come out of my pocket. It’s all about choices. People chose to attend the university. People chose to take on that debt with eyes wide open. Yes, it sucks and (IMHO) it is dishonest. But it is the reality. If people don’t want the debt, don’t take it on. And don’t expect others to foot the bill when the going gets tough. If you can’t pay the rent, you get evicted. If you can’t make the car payment, you get repoed. If you can’t pay the electric bill, the lights go out. But if you can’t pay your student loans you still get to keep your education. That’s a bargain no matter how you slice it……and exactly why you went to college in the first place. So don’t ask me to pay for something no one can take away from you. I’m not going to pay for your rent, car or utilities (all far more critical to daily survival) so why should I pay for your education?
Yep. It shouldn't be a money making scheme like it is. They'll never change it (capitalism rules!), and it's just going to get worse and harder for kids to go to school/bad for the economy. you'd think schools would want MORE kids going to school, even if it meant each one paid less. 10000 kids paying 10K a year isn't better than 15K kids paying 7500 a year.
The weird part, to me anyway, is how the hell do government run organizations go to a for-profit mentality? While I was at PSU, I was working as a student in the contracts office and the amount of money going out is insane. Absolutely insane. They're constantly building. They were getting ready to spend 10s of millions of dollars on a stupid basketball arena while I was there. Basketball...... at a school that doesn't give a rats ass about sports.
The supreme irony is that, to hear the Right tell it, American universities are hot beds of Socialism when the reality is that they are first class examples of American Capitalism……..
I agree that no one is entitled. But when you segregate your society based on who can afford stuff vs who can't, you aren't doing your society any good. That's awesome that he did that. But it's not an option for everyone. There are about 20 million college students each year (not NEW students, just total). That # dwarfs the # in the military. There aren't 20 million openings (or 5 million if you make an estimate of 20 million/4 years of college, etc) in the military. If they did 10% per year (aprox 150 billion per year), that'd still be a better use of the money. Yeah, but go find out what happens if you default on your student loans. Vs what happens if you don't pay your rent or car gets repoed? You can eventually negotiate your way out of that debt. You can't negotiate your way out of student loan debt. Why should i pay for k1-12 kids education when I don't have any? Why should I pay for a war I don't believe in? Why should I pay to support other countries? There's a lot of money spent on stuff i don't agree with.
Wiping out the student loans is treating the symptom instead of the disease. Why has the cost of college soared so high? I'd argue it's a direct result of the proliferation of the student loans. Kids are encouraged (almost forced) into these student loans without any fair discussion about the potential downside. This is definitely a predatory process. Kids are also indoctrinated that if they want to be successful, they need to go to college... So much so, that the kids believe that soon as they get their degree - that they'll be set for life. The entire premise and discussion of college needs to change significantly. Again, student loans are a MASSIVE issue that needs to be addressed. Wiping out the loans only TEMPORARILY fixes the symptom. Without a structural change to the system - we'll be right back to where we are (and probably in a worse situation). I agree student loan debt is not good debt. The system needs to be fixed ASAP. The correct fix is to set all student loan interest rates to 0%. This will make it so the loan amounts can't grow (or even stay static) after paying on it for 10+years. I'd even be fine with going back retro-actively and recalibrating the interest rates to help people in this never ending spiral. However, just wiping the debt away is the wrong course of action.
