Science Ant is legit and we need to really wrap our minds around what that means

depends on the metric. some stats indicate he's one of the worst defenders in the league (third worst defensive win shares in the league, one of the worst defensive box plus minus among guys who play). He's adequate in some scenarios, but he's pretty far from average, I think.

We saw a photo of a Lakers film session before playing us that specifically identified Ant and Dame as the guys to attack as part of their scouting report. Even Chauncey has been imploring Ant to get better by reminding him how the Clippers' game plan was to just go at him last season when he was an assistant there.

The hope is that he's going to improve with more PT and experience.

 

I know defensive stats can be noisy, but statistically he's not even an average defender on the Blazers. 4 points worse than the team defensive rating and he's had the statistical advantage of logging a lot of minutes lately when the team defense has been better than it was earlier in the season

he's 22 so there is time for his defense to improve, but it will probably never be very good. Further, if the future is him starting alongside Dame then he's going to have the same problem CJ has had and that's being constantly switched onto bigger and taller wings

 

My ceiling for ant if absolutely everything went right for him was Jordan Clarkson. If you compare them just this season alone, Ant has been much more efficient.

But I've had to recalibrate that after seeing his playmaking this month.

But does he have Dame-like chops? I wouldn't hold out hope for that. Dame was a 22 yr old rookie who tangibly improved every summer for over 8 yrs to reach his peak as a top 5-8 player. The hope is that Ant surpasses CJ caliber and I think he can do that, but hard to imagine this scenario where he does this next to Dame. I don't think he can fully recognize his talent unless he's given the keys.

If Aldridge didn't leave in 15, would Dame have continued to develop and become the 30 pt scorer he is today? The math that Cronin has to do is figure how much longer Dame can maintain his prime. If it's going to be 5-6 yrs, perhaps trading Ant is not the worst scenario. And it doesn't have to be done now. Giving him a reasonable/tradeable contract can allow him to be moved a few years down the line.

 

Ant and Dame can coexist. First Dame is in his 30's, he isn't going to want the minutes, games, and shot loads that he had in his mid 20's. He will be happy to stand in the corner some and let Ant shine, or rest an extra 10 minutes on a back to back.

The issue is really the remainder of the roster. It doesn't make any sense to have CJ with this duo, and even Powell has questionable value. The team needs big defensive forwards to go with such a backcourt. Roco is good, and Nas and Nance are nice although their 3 point shooting is a concern. They need another big forward that can defend and hit threes.

Now depending on the trade haul from a CJ/Powell trades compared to a massive Dame trade haul it might not make the most strategic sense to build around Dame+Simons. Cashing in the haul for Dame might give the team the most assets to contend.

But if the franchise is set on a hard no to Dame trades, there are ways to build around Dame and Ant, so no I don't believe they each must have their own team. We've seen Curry and Klay win multiple titles along with MVP usage Durant. Harden has fit with other high usage scorers. MVP Wade and LeBron fit. There is some give and take, its a process, but those pairs can be dominant.

However; the focus of building the team needs to be around maximizing the units with Dame and Ant, and not maximizing CJ or Norm's roles.

 

The only way to have dame and ant co-exist is to have a huge frontcourt similar to the cavs. 3 front court players all 6’10 minimum and long and vicious defensively and quick—need to be able to close fast once our perimeter guys get beat. (This is part of the reason why I’d rather have a Myles turner than Nurk).

 

The point should not be about "coexisting," but rather "maximizing." There are a portion of us here who felt CJ was not able to fully realize his abilities because he was paired with Dame. And I've long maintained the two never had synergy to produce more than the sum of their individual talents, so that we could actually win big. I placed a lot of this blame on Terry-- but the primary problem was still roster construction.

Even with a CJ/Norm trade, I don't simply want a repeat of what we saw the past six years with Ant replacing CJ in the Dame pairing this time around.

 

Ya, I know what it means. Still not sure it fits. Then again I’m a dumbass

 

IMO, there were two major problems with the Dame/CJ pairing. One was that they never developed any synergy. The best they built was an 'it's-my-turn-it's-your-turn-it's-my-turn-again' rapport that only looked great the few times both were hitting all their shots and seeing the floor well. They were too redundant in style and usage demand. I think Dame developed a better synergy with Matthews in his first season than he ever has with CJ in 7 seasons...

...the other problem was that the Dame/CJ pairing really needed an all-star level 2-way player at one of the forward positions. Going from Aminu/Harkless to RoCo/Powell was 7 years of a flawed front-courts. Powell is obviously the best offensive player they had at forward, but he's not 2-way and he's playing out of position

just rebooting from Dame/CJ to Dame/Simons doesn't seem to address the first big issue about fit and synergy, while leaving in place the defensive holes. And unless Blazer management can somehow land an all-star level wing/forward in trade, they won't be fixing the 2nd issue

 

So you are certain now is Ant's highest?

If not, and if he has significant improvements coming, trading him now may be far worse than the Jermaine O'Neal trade.

 

Gary trent never came close to doing what ant has done.

 

I'm just gonna say that Simons having Dame and CJ to look up to, and Stotts as his coach for his first three years did not set the young man up for success on defense.

 

I'm bullish on Ants continued success/growth. He seems to be a student of the game like Dame. The biggest question for me is can he be reliably clutch? That is what seperates good from great. Great players are ones you hold onto.

 

Curry, Klay, and KD are all completely different players. Ant and Dame are similar to each other. Wade never won MVP but they were different too. Harden is a good example playing with Chris Paul and winning 65 games.

 

Klay is/was a completely different type of player than anyone Dame has played with in years. Also, the teammates around Curry/LeBron/Harden had much more in terms of length and defense to compliment them. Agreed with maximizing the pieces around Dame and Ant if those are the 2 guards left standing.

Wouldn't someone with the versatility of Simmons potentially be a great fit if you are going to go with a Dame/Ant backcourt?

 

Trent NEVER passed the ball like Ant has been doing. Also, if Trent was huge in the bubble and then a couple months later cooled off, wouldn't that have been the off-season? Or the start of the next season? Please clarify.

 

huh? You said become our Trent. Trent is no longer with us. The numbers he put up in the bubble you reference are not changeable. Ant has already done more in the last month then trent did in all his tome on our roster.

and this created a much bigger buzz for him than trent ever had.

 

IMO, I trade Ant now if the right front court player is on the table. Include him is a package. Powell and Dame at the guard positions is formidable and Powell is the better defending guard we have now. He's also tough as Nails and gets to the hoop and FTL.