Umm... Nobody was attacking lawmakers in session post election with handcuffs or torture devices at any of the protests. And they were protesting government oppression... Not the legitimate outcome of a democratic election... The differences are fairly significant...
You can guess intent or weigh the reasoning behind a riot all you want but at the end of the day you have to go on what crimes were actually committed. What was the intent behind setting a building on fire with people inside? Some might surmise it was to burn people alive. Just like you may surmise zip ties are a crude form of handcuffs. The result we end up with is that luckily nobody was burned alive and luckily nobody got zip-tied to death. Address the crimes that were committed.
The people who lit the fire at the building went to jail. Nobody defended or made excuses for their actions. The other protesters put the fire out and turned them in. Completely different situations and intentions... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/zip-cuffs-capitol-riots/ But I guess maybe these zip ties were probably just to keep the potato chips fresh... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ed-after-citizen-sleuths-idd-them-online/amp/
My recollection is that it was a dumpster on fire that was pushed up next to the building. The intent to set the building on fire might be legit but I don’t believe an actual building fire occurred. That was more Andy Ngo(?) and his right wing media cronies. The left isn’t the only group to exaggerate for dramatic effect…..and you’re comparing apples to oranges anyway.
For setting fires, not for whatever ‘intent’ they may have had. That’s the point I’m making. The people at the capitol went to jail and are being charged with crimes they actually committed also, not for ‘maybe they were gonna zip tie Mike Pence and hang him’. Maybe they were, luckily we’ll never know. Luckily nobody got burned alive in Portland and the charge was arson and not murder. The fires could’ve just been to keep peaceful protesters warm. I wasn’t denying the zip ties being handcuffs btw. Only saying they never got used, and there isn’t really a crime outlining the possession of zip ties.
If you accidentally run over someone in your car it's a different charge than if you try to run someone over, even if you didn't succeed in running them over. Intent matters.
If somebody says they want to run someone over, hops in their car and then doesn’t run anyone over, what is the crime? You could argue intent but nothing happened. That is more along the lines of what I’m arguing. I don’t deny there were a handful of people that day that had bad intentions, I know there were. The problem is this lazy idea that everyone there was on board with the zip tie guy and all working in unison to accomplish the common goal of putting those zip ties to use. It’s not that easy of an open and shut case, sorry. It was chaos that consisted of mostly disorganized dipshits going along with a crowd, like Portland riots or any other. There were certainly a few crazies mixed in, luckily they didn’t do anything. If every member of that large mob (or any) was intent on death and destruction you would’ve certainly seen a lot more death and destruction, not cops standing around and casually corralling people one way or the other while they shit on desks and break windows. You can only charge people for the crimes they committed. If zip tie guy or any others have a manifesto that aligns with what happened that day you could certainly put that intent to use in a legal way. I just haven’t seen any evidence of a coordinated plan. Just a bunch of morons fucking shit up and being opportunistic with open doors.
It's illegal to plan on killing somebody. There are witnesses to to people saying that was the plan. As well as assault. As well as kidnapping. As well as torture. I'm really not sure what your point is. Nobody is suggesting people should be charged for anything they didn't do.
If you make a plan to do it and then try to carry out the plan but fail it is called attempted murder and possibly conspiracy. This is not a gray area...
Correct, if and when they put together evidence for this, people will be charged with it. Just not sure there is any or enough to tie it to certain individuals. Some guys saying he heard people say it isn’t enough unfortunately. Not sure why you think a bunch of trump people would be let of easier than anyone else. They’re probably more despised than most, especially by those in the federal justice system.
More Trouble for the FBI in the Whitmer Kidnapping Case In a stunning move, defense lawyers now want prosecutors to offer immunity not to their clients but to FBI agents and informants. The media went wild last week after Joe Biden’s Justice Department finally produced a criminal indictment to support the claim that January 6 was an “insurrection” planned by militiamen loyal to Donald Trump: Eleven members of the Oath Keepers, including its founder, Stewart Rhodes, face the rarely used charge of seditious conspiracy for their brief and nonviolent involvement at the Capitol protest that day. Journalists luxuriated in the news, jeering those of us who had correctly noted that the Justice Department had failed to charge anyone with insurrection or sedition for more than a year. But the press does not share the same zeal in covering another politically charged investigation: the imploding criminal case against five men accused of plotting to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020. The kidnapping narrative shares many similarities with their preferred telling of January 6, not the least of which is that alleged militias incited by Trump attempted to carry out a domestic terror attack. Despite wall-to-wall coverage after the charges in the Michigan case were announced right before Election Day, the corporate media has almost completely memory-holed the abduction caper. Stewart Rhodes is a household name; Stephen Robeson, a convicted felon and the chief FBI informant in the Whitmer case accused of all sorts of malfeasance, is not. The reason, of course, is that exposing how the FBI set a trap to lure down-on-their-luck men—one of the codefendants referred to Adam Fox, the alleged plot leader, as “Captain Autism”—into their kidnapping ruse would run afoul of the media’s insistence that the government had nothing to do with the events of January 6, despite plenty of proof that hundreds of FBI agents and informants were involved before and during the Capitol protest. (A top FBI official recently refused under oath to say whether FBI agents or assets engaged in or incited violent criminal behavior on January 6.)
Second person to plead guilty in plot to kidnap Michigan governor Feb 7 (Reuters) - A second person charged in a plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020 has agreed to plead guilty and testify at a trial in March, according to a federal court filing on Monday. Kaleb Franks, 27, will plead guilty to kidnapping conspiracy, in a plea deal approved by prosecutors and his lawyers. The charge carries a sentence of up to life in prison. Franks is scheduled to stand trial in March in U.S. District Court for the Western District of Michigan alongside four others charged in the case and will admit to conspiring from June 2020 to October 2020 to kidnap Whitmer, a Democrat. In August last year, another man who pleaded guilty to charges stemming from the plot received a sentence of just over six years in prison, after he also agreed to testify against fellow extremists in the "Wolverine Watchmen" militia who were accused in the conspiracy. read more Ty Garbin was the first to be convicted of scheming to abduct Whitmer from her vacation home. Since the FBI said it uncovered the conspiracy by members of the militia group, more than a dozen men have been charged in state or federal court. Prosecutors said the suspected participants in the plot sought Whitmer's capture in retribution for wide-ranging public health orders imposed in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/se...lty-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-2022-02-07/
Interesting timing for a completely invented plot funded by the FBI to be announced to the public. I’m sure it’s coincidental.
Even coming across as remotely defending the insurrection or downplaying it is fucking atrocious and pathetic. Disgraceful
Anything short of making false grandiose claims constitutes defending it in your eyes, that’s the problem. Apparently even suggesting that maybe January 6th wasn’t quite as bad as fucking 9/11 or Pearl Harbor is ATROCIOUS!!!!
It’s not about a death count. It’s about being attacked by known enemies and then being attacked on our soil by….Americans. When people try to draw comparisons that is what they are talking about. I would think it doesn’t require an explanation but of course it does
It requires explanation because the claim is so fucking ridiculous, not to mention trivializing to those other events. And it remains ridiculous despite your poor explanation. “It’s not about death count” Maybe it is to people who count stupid minor details like that. A person could compare WW2 to the board game Risk and technically be correct, but they’d still sound like a fucking idiot.
I didn't say they would be let off. I fully expect these people to serve sentences relative to the crime, probably to the max considering the gravity of the situation. And people testifying that they heard you saying you planned on killing somebody while you were carrying weapons and torture devices is certainly enough to be considered evidence once they've proven you were there. No question about it.
