I agree with everything John Law has been saying in this thread. Liilard is one of the most over-rated players around. I've also really disliked watching the team play with Lillard running the team. Slow transitions, no defense - iso ball. Terrible. Not enjoyable to watch. He's not a 'Superstar', he is an All-star for sure, but go back and watch his 'effort' on defense in the play-offs. Atrocious. A player that takes 40% of a teams salary should be reserved for generational two-way players (ie. LeBron, Giannis) - they provide defense. All of this talk about acquiring x player that has to be elite defender because of Lillards defeciencies. How about fixing the root of the problem by getting a star who actually plays defense. A two-way star doesn't need comromises to be made when filling out the rest of the roster because they are a human turnstyle. (Also, when have you seen a so called 'Superstar' who's abilty declines in the play-offs. And - PLEASE, desist with the Lillard is clutch BS. He's very un-clutch and an average 3pt shooter.) Loved watching the young guys push the tempo & move the ball around, last year, when Lillardless. Trading Lillard can't come soon enough.
Thinking the team will never be contenders with Lillard is certainly a hot take, but not something that I would consider to be trolling. There are plenty of people who think that.
It is what it is. Olshey wasted Dame's best years. Now he will begin to get older, skills will inevitably diminish, but he will cost more and more. We may get bailed out but the Cap going up, but it will go up for everyone else as well. Dame is an incredible talent and has been very clutch at times over the years, but I can understand those that aren't thrilled with his lack of defense and him walking the ball up the court almost all the time while teammates are running. He is almost always the last to cross half-court, unless he is ahead of Nurk....which isn't exactly a high bar. Maybe that can change at least a little bit this season with a full year under Billups and new emphasis on defense and attacking downhill after a stop. But since we haven't seen that in 10 years, it seems at least reasonable to question if that will ever be the case. No matter how much we like him, how much he has done for the community, players are still measured in large part by post-season success. Dame has had precious little of that. Walton had Luke and a bunch of role players. Clyde had Buck and a tons of 2nd round picks. By contrast, Dame has had a lot higher Draft selections, whether those worked out or not. Bill certainly made his teammates better and was dominant on both sides of the ball. Clyde was a dominant physical force would affected a game defensively just by his sheer size, strength and quickness. Dame has been very good offensively, but the other side of the ball, his teammates are left covering for him time after time. That doesn't seem to be trolling, rather just what has been his career so far.
well you've convinced yourself nobody wants to play here with Dame but we're going to disagree....Grant only wanted to be traded to Portland and Carmelo didn't think he'd start when he came here...he came as a bench player..as I said....what transpired under the Neil Olshey apron is not what we're talking about today..Dame has built a hell of a brand since his rookie years. but I'll send back the same idea to you that you have a hell of a spin to keep that old narrative alive...I don't think Portland is looked at the way you do anymore. Word gets out even from players who've left that they loved playing with the guy...once here..most of them have career years.....Pau Gasol wasn't any different from Chris Kaman....an old vet who might have been able to give you back up minutes and mentor young guys but he couldn't get healthy...he's playing in Spain now. Everyone following the team knows Grant wanted to come here and play with Lillard so the idea that Detroit really wanted that future Bucks pick was not the draw...we got Grant the way NO got CJ....Detroit sent him where he wanted to go. We'll just have to agree to disagree ...new chapter in Portland...don't need to drag all those old narratives into the future is my take. Unnecessary baggage...last season was a major transition for the team and I think a good one. Dame playing with team USA is connected to all that as well.
Wow! I remember when Roy's game started to break down due to his health and people started to turn on him and call him selfish. Dame's health and game are not diminishing. He's not one to bullshit and he says he's playing the best ball he's ever played. Is it realistic to think that he'll be at that level forever? No. Could he be at that level for the next four years? Yes. It's not likely but it's very possible given his dedication to his body rivaling guys like LeBron, his size, his lack of chronic injuries to joints or back and the fact that he's never relied on his athleticism as much as his timing, ability to shoot and find open teammates. He's never been a good defender but he's never had a coach who really put a lot into that end of the floor, he's also never had a scheme or teammates that could cover for him (I'm not sure that he even has those teammates now). The fact is he has been one of the top five most potent offensive weapons in the game for the five seasons previous to last... he has also stayed with us. People alluded to the cap explosion that will take place the second year of this rumored extension but if we manage the cap between now and then in the right way, it would allow us to go way into the luxury tax that first year of the extension and then be out of it before the repeater tax would kick in when the cap makes the jump up. This extension would be a gamble on Dame and that has been the one gamble over the past ten years that in my opinion has actually had better than expected returns every time we've made it... it's the other gambles that this organization has double and trippled down on that have let us down. When comparing the guys that Dame has played with to those who have gone further than Dame it's important to do so accurately. Oh and the implication that Walton made his teammates better than Dame made his is a misnomer when you look at the way guys have fallen off from being mediocre starters with Dame to being end of bench players without him and the allstar and all defensive teams guys made after playing with Bill. So let's look at those supporting casts. Walton had Luke... I don't know if anything else has to be said, he was a multiple time all star even without Walton, he was an allnba selection, an all defensive team selection twice. Dame hasn't played with one player that even comes close to being great and Luke was better than great... and lets not forget the impact one NBA player can have on wins. It wasn't just one all star though Lionell Hollins was also an all star (Dame hasn't played with one besides LaMarcus far before Dame's prime). Hollins was also a two time all defensive selection. Twardzik had previously been an ABA allstar. Gross was an all defensive selection the year after they won the championship. Steele even led the league in steals in '75 and he was the team's seventh man. Dame has played with one guy that has ever been selected to an all defensive team and it was Whiteside, obviously not the year that Dame played with him. Clyde played with Terry (two time allstar), Buck (3 time allstar, 4 time all defensive team), Duck (two time allstar), Cliff (future all star and all defensive selection), Jerome who doesn't have the acolades but most of us know what he did and Ainge (allstar and two time champion) the second time in the finals. The thing about those supporting casts wasn't even the immense difference in talent they had on them compared to what Dame has had to work with but moreso the fit which Dame has always had terrible clunky fit rosters around him. Dame has also had Terry Stotts as his head coach for every meaningful year he's played and I don't think I have to explain the implications of that. Anyway keep on turning on Dame, it's fucking disgusting to see but keep on doing it and then those of you who I know have integrity will gladly eat crow starting next season and a bunch of you will just disappear. It's a sad discussion being had. I'm not saying there's no merit in discussing if the right move is to move Dame for a haul or try to win a championship with him and keep having only ever played in a Blazers uniform in the NBA... it's the turning on him to make your point or even agreeing with or liking the posts that do... gross!
I turned on him because he was selfish. The shit that went down with Andre Miller was inexcusable. Also there was rumblings at the time that he was unhappy because he felt that too much of the offense was going through Oden. Plus.... you know.... he just completely turned his back on the city once he was gone.
Dame's best years are ahead of him....the waste was playing with an injured core the last 5 years...Chauncey was able to convince him to shut it down as well as his Olympic teammates who redommended he get the surgery. Just watch what a healed, rested Dame is going to look like this season with an upgraded starting lineup. He's a winner. He has young talented backups now as well so he won't have to be on the court every second to keep us in games...big difference. ..having a two way bench is going to be a difference maker and extend Dame's career and production
100%. Maybe @THE HCP has more perspective but from an outside perspective it seemed like Roy was the jerk, not Andre.
It came from Quick, so take it with a grain of salt, but I remember him saying that Roy changed once he became a star. I don't think anyone has ever said anything remotely like that about Dame.
The Roy - Dre feud landed us none other than Raymond Felton......I'll never forgive Roy for chasing Dre out of Portland and then leaving for the Wolves almost immediately afterwards...then never showing his face in Portland again other than one brief visit at a game after he retired from the Wolves.
true but Roy medically retired saying he had to choose between playing with his kids and walking or playing basketball...then signed a two year deal with another team.
So Dame wasted 5 years of his own career by not getting surgery? I was willing to blast Olshey for it. It it's Dame's fault, that's a whole other issue.
part of it was but then again...Dame hasn't wasted his career...he's lost a year because of playing injured now....so yeah..he had something to do with it getting worse. Today...it's resolved and no longer an issue so look forward to seeing a superstar beast.....I am. Playing in the Olympics actually changed Dame's perspective...watching CJ get traded and understanding it also changed his perspective....last season Dame got immersed in the Joe, Chauncey program and he's lobbied like never before in his career for the team...big change. I like it.
Yeah I don't know what it was like on here but I'm pretty sure those were still in my O-Live days and if my memory serves me people there didn't start to call him selfish (whether it's accurate or not) until his knees were going and his game was ineffective which even if he's a dick, is kinda shitty. You turn on a guy for things that you ignored when he was delivering for you because his health fails him. I'm not saying that's everyone but I am saying that's most of people. The way that applies to Dame is, people are talking shit after they haven't seen him play for a year and I haven't seen these guys before. Both situations (to me) stink of people kicking others while they're down as opposed to having consistent opinions.
On this forum a lot of people turned on Roy during the Andre Miller stuff. Not necessarily when his knees started to go. Miller was one of the best free agents we have ever signed. You'd hope to think a better leader would have made it work instead of throwing him under the bus like Roy did. As far as Dame, saying he is 32 and that we aren't a contender isn't really a slight against Dame. He has never been great at defense, but he is a star player.
