there is a difference between fantasy leagues and real leagues. You're suggesting that players should take massive pay-cuts if they want to win. That's fantasy. The Warriors just won the championship with 3 players who were all playing for the max salaries they could sign for at the time they signed. They played against the Celtics who were paying max deals to their two top players teams are not going to win anything by trying to cheapscrew their best players. That's not where contenders save money. It used to be that contenders saved money on the supporting cast. But these days, even the top end of supporting casts are being paid heavily
Just imagine if they all would take the veteran minimum, we could have Durant, Ayton, John Collins, and OG Anunoby. Heck we could probably also bring back CJ and Norm as pure backups on the bench.
Okay I get your point about the salary a couple years from now. However, as far as trade able contracts, I would counter that was different management and Gm handing that money out. I am not sure the past should dictate the future in this instance. Do you think we overpaid for Ant?
Would I rather have Lillard playing next year with this extension or without one? With it. There are no questions lingering. Lillard is healthy, again. He’s a guy with a chip on his shoulder, and I’d rather he direct that outside the organization than inside. This version of the team is beginning to take shape. I see the holes that exist … at least IMHO. Is there anyone on this board who would want last year’s line-up back and everyone’s healthy? As compared to this one that hasn’t played a game together? I wouldn’t. (And I liked RoCo, Nance, and Powell … and recognize CJ’s strengths.) Dame got paid. It affects nothing of significance — negatively, that is — given that Nurkic and Simons got paid and had to — a few million here or there isn’t the issue for them. If they want to pay (reasonably) Grant and Little and Hart after this year, they’ll be able to. There just wasn’t going to be cap room after this year. And they didn’t overpay Turner and match Crabbe, again.
They would probably win it all and the story would be inspiration for hundreds of years. Can't imagine how would they stay alive on vet min. Bread and water. Nightmare
yes...I think Portland overpaid for Ant, Nurk, and Payton. I was hoping that Ant+Nurk would come in around 35M/year combined. I'm convinced no other team was going to come close to offering what either got. But the difference between what I think their market actually was and what they got is only about 5-6% of the cap, so it's not some giant gap...cap gap envy Payton is not so much an overpay in salary but the impact of being hard capped
Gotcha. What i am unclear on is if the cap is going up, then wouldn't the same salary value implications apply to Ant and Nurk? Meaning overpaid now but not looking so bad when the cap goes up? I would think they would be easier to trade, being younger, than Dame? ( not saying i want to trade dame, fyi)
True, but Dame's extension has no impact on roster building opportunities for this season, whereas Ant/Nurk/GP2's signings all do.
I understand this year is pretty locked. Im saying the extension will make it harder to avoid that same lock over the next couple of years now. But im no cap expert and will defer to you guys… BUT, if this rises like the kraken in a couple years, ill have to search for the best “I told you so” meme. Lol
may be the case I'm talking about what I believe the market was this summer. I took a bit of a deep dive looking at the teams that actually had 20M+ in cap-space and what their rosters were. There were only 3-4 teams that had that kind of space (maybe less), and those teams had guards, many either better or younger with more years left of rookie deals. Ant was a 27 game wonder in his 4th season. It was a massive stretch of paranoia to think he was going to be a 25M/year target of some team. Same was pretty much true of Nurkic but again, this wasn't an EvanTurner/AllenCrabbe WTF overpay. It was a few million a year and just like the imagined discount Dame could give the Blazers, it wasn't going to make much of a difference
For this particular season, even if Ant/Nurk all took half of their deals, the Blazers still would've had the exact same "money" in free agency, the Full-MLE, as the best offer they could give a free agent. Dame's extension has no bearing on this or the next two off seasons. But I challenge those pushing back against this to answer this one question: Who would you have wanted them to sign if they did get say $20 million in cap space that would've made them win a championship?
Who's talking about free agency, or a single move that would win them a championship? IMO, the benefit to signing Nurk/Ant to cheaper deals would be more room under the hard cap for potential trades that might be available around the deadline. Obviously Dame's extension has no impact on that either.
This is impossible to say because we don't know who will be available in a year or two that we could sign or trade for, no? Sign is more predictable but not 100%? Due to possible buyouts or releases?
This is my point. Harden took a specific paycut (Philly will make it up to him next summer) so that the 76ers could sign Tucker, who they would've had trouble getting otherwise. People would be asking Ant/Nurk to take half their worth to MAYBE sign someone next year or the year after. Asking them to take less to be able to sign a particular player this year would maybe be justifiable. Asking players to take less in future years so that mayyyyyyybe they are able to get someone else would be comical.
Outside a few ridiculous people who should be ignored, people didn't want Ant/Nurk to sign for less than they were worth. They just didn't want them signed for more than they were worth. Nurk likely had a very limited market due to injury history and the changing NBA landscape. Ant was RFA. Neither was likely to get an offer from another team approaching what they received from us.
I'd certainly take last years lineup and everyone healthy over what the Blazers have now. But I get how many fans here love their team in July, pretty common of all NBA teams this time of the year. Lets see what people think in December. Swapping those players would be effectively trading Roco, Nance, Powell and CJ for only Hart and Grant. That first group is much better than the second. Too bad the thought of the Blazers being a top5 NBA spending team are apparently long over. That always seemed to be a possibility of happening again with Paul Allen owning the team. Hell a few years they were far and away the most expensive payroll in the league around 2000 back when the team last had a contender. Purely from an asset accumulation perspective, which the Blazers need to focus on since they aren't contenders; the team could flip that first group of players with Simons, Nurk, etc for a lot more talent than what we can build with now. So even if you didn't like those 4 players, I'd think you have to feel as though we lost talent.
Nurk had a limited market because not many teams that needed a center had more than the MLE to offer him. I agree it was a little more than he was probably worth, but Klutch is dang good at negotiations. They also likely gave him a bit of a bonus for agreeing to sit out last year in a contract year, knowing how that would look for a player like him with those injury concerns you mentioned. $17 million AAV for a quality starting center isn't a huge deal, IMO. I totally get why people didn't like it though. Ant is a different story though. Even if we ignore that he was also willing to sit out in a contract year bonus, if you don't get him locked up immediately you risk another team giving him a bigger offer that they would've been forced to match. So it's a game with good RFA's to find a sweet spot between slightly overpaying and not having to risk them potentially signing a bigger offer sheet. They didn't want to risk Ant finding a bigger offer and they don't believe $25 million will look like an overpay. Would a few million less have been worth making Ant question whether they really believe in him? Not sure of the answer to that, but I think they think he's a star in the making and want him to know how wanted he is. That's also fine with me, especially since I believe that too. Grant is gonna sign an extension in 6 months too. It will also be an overpay, but part of the deal when you get a player that actually wants to come here. All this to say, paying these guys less to overpay the next Evan Turner or Chandler Parsons isn't going to matter in the grand scheme of whether or not Dame wins a title. They need to hit home runs with draft picks and other trades. Maybe get lucky with a Jabari Walker becoming a competent role player with the 2nd to last pick. Basically, all of the things they could do whether they have the highest or lowest payroll in the league. When they had cap space, they got an extra 1st round pick. They used that pick on Caleb Swanigan (RIP). Gotta execute those types of things better.
