Nope. I don't think that at all. I didn't say they couldn't. In fact, I specifically suggested that in a post above. I'm not even sure what you're talking about here. Who suggested this? I find keeping people in prison who don't need to be in prison illogical. Obviously most of those people don't need to be in prison. No other country has that high of a percentage in prison. Oh, just hire people who don't exist. Great solution. See my above post about being illogical. There are no people to hire. We have to get more efficient with the people we already have.
im not sure how to respond to this when your responses do not address what you quote. Lets just take the last one for example. Did you not see the comment about retraining prison staff? Not all need to be new hires. im not sure how you come to some of these responses based on what you are quoting. I am sorry, but some of your responses are directly avoiding/missing or ignoring some of what i said in the very post you aRe quoting/responding to. Hard to have a conversation when that is happening.
The current prison staff is not qualified to run these programs. Especially not while doing their current job, with far more prisoners than are needed. This is not logical. We don't have the manpower. You can't just double a persons workload for something they are not qualified to do. Prison guards are not the kind of people who run rehabilitation programs. You're trying to come up with excuses to keep people in prison who don't need to be in prison. This is not logical. I understand this a hard conversation for you to have, because you are trying to make something seem logical that is not logical. That's why what you are suggestion has never been done. It's not possible.
Of course they aren't currently qualified. Again. Training. Retraining….What can i do to help you actually address what i say vs what you perceive im saying? Again just becuase something has never been done doesn't mean its not possible. I answered this before, that you ignored. Traveling across the ocean was once thought impossible. Traveling around the world was once thought impossible. Take the pyramids. We currently do not know how it was possible to build them. But it was possible and it happened. Things can change. People can be retrained, funds can be reallocated. You yourself have said this. I have no clue what you are debating here since you have agreed in the past with what im currently saying… What makes the convo hard is you keep responding to things i didn't say or responding to only a portion and leaving half the post out of your response. The part that answers your response… thats all. Nothing more. Did you even address my first point in that previous post? Nope. its like im talking to a wall bro. Movin on now. Judge me however you like…
I addressed it. See? What can I do to get you to stop deflecting? We already know how to solve this problem. We have examples all over the world. This is not a new invention that is needed. What you are suggesting is trying to re-invent the wheel with a crew that we don't have, and so we can't train. You are suggesting we use the blocks on horse carriages because you just like the way they look better than those round things. I'm not sure why you're getting defensive again. Stop taking it so personally. I'm not judging you. We're having a policy discussion. I'm not going to respond to every little thing you post. I'm going to respond to what I deem important. If you want to go deeper into something you are free to address it or ask for clarification. Again, I don't take these things personally. Feel free to move on if you aren't going to engage in actual discussion.
re·train /rēˈtrān/ Learn to pronounce verb teach (someone) new skills, especially so that they can do a different job. "they are helping to retrain the long-term unemployed" learn new skills so as to be able to do a different job. "a workforce which is willing to retrain"
Everybody can't do every job. Prison guards are not typically the same personality type as you find in successful rehab centers. What you are suggesting can not work in reality. The numbers don't add up. It is simply a continuation of the same thing, disguised as an attempt at change.
I don't agree with the sentiment that people and personalities cant change. Not all can for sure. But there is a reason people say “never say never”. You I understand you think differently. You keep using the words cant work though. i am saying that it isn't a fact something cant be done just because it hasn't been done before. I think thats tossing hands up in the air and giving up.
Yes. When something hasn't worked for hundreds of years it's time to give up on it. Using the kind of people our broken system has hired to run prisons doesn't work for rehabilitation. This is the kind of people you're advocating running our rehab centers. These kind of people are the problem with our current prison system. Families of Arizona Prison Guards Suffer High Rates of Domestic Violence
Not all people are the same. Not all prison guards are the same and not all cops are the same. https://www.bop.gov/jobs/positions/index.jsp?p=Correctional Officer
Nobody said they all were. Again, you're deflecting. I posted the information. You're suggesting pulling from an undereducated high domestic violence population to recruit people to work in our rehab centers. Which requires extreme patience and vast knowledge of psychological and behavioral tendencies. How are they even going to do the YEARS of full time education while doing their full time jobs at prisons since we refuse to reduce the prison population? Just put in 80 hr weeks for 4-8 years? I'm sorry, but that makes no logical sense.
People can change. It can be done you. just refuse to give any flexibility to the fact that just because something has not been done, it might still possibly be doable and doesn't mean it cant actually be done. To me its illogical to not want to think outside the box. Your logic is confined by numbers that don't directly reflect our situation compared to other countries. I get it. You think im illogical. cool deal.
You want to reinvent the wheel for seemingly no reason. That's not logical. Why would we do that when we have many blueprints of how to do corrections better all over the world? Makes no sense. Do you just wander around the streets in new places when you have an appointment or do you use a map? You use a map, because intelligent people use the knowledge of others to solve problems more efficiently and effectively. Please explain how our situation is different? How our criminal population should be treated differently than the German prison population?
Oh boy. You wont let it go will you? Maps get updated. At one point the map said our world is flat. Nothing is set in stone, except some mindsets… Everything evolves. Including problem solving and answers to problems. Also i wouldnt use a map of Germany to navigate America. It wouldn't march up and make sense. Coal was once the answer to power needs. How is that working out now?
Yes, they get updated when you know you have a better answer. We don't have a better answer. Why would I let up? Your suggestion to the best of my understanding is to have the same people who are screwing up our prisoners keep screwing up our prisoners indefinitely, and in the same numbers. And "People change" isn't a policy solution.
There you go. It's ok to admit you don't know a better way, and that others have already solved the problem.
If thats what you got from that, you feel free to run with it, but you would be wrong. If the problem were solved there would be nothing to debate. Lol. Again. Whatever you say chief… Lol.
It doesn't sound like there is anything to debate... You want to debate, but you have no data or facts to back up what you're proposing... Then you want to take it personal that you have nothing to bring to the table beyond... maybe people will change...
No one is taking anything personal. Im just moving on cause all we are doing is spinning circles. Im sorry you aren't able to understand that. Your debating style is not worthy of continuing for me and its you who seems to have an issue with that by not letting it go. Someone who believes that people cant change is not worth debating to me. Its just not worth it. We will not agree on anything. I don't see the point in going round and round. Even the poll shows more people agree with me than they do you. Go tell them they are not logical for a while. My lord. Lol. You infer and assume too much. Just like this comment im quoting. But whatever you say chief.
