Don't trade the pick

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Trailblazers76, May 18, 2023.

  1. Trailblazers76

    Trailblazers76 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Imagine three years from now seeing Scoot/Miller/whoever becoming a superstar on another team. While we're stuck with regret adding another name to the list of legends we passed on drafting. And for what?

    Say we trade the pick for a low end all-star then what? We have a three year window of mid-seed playoff appearances and our shitty defense doing us in every time. And with Dame on the floor the defense will be shitty. It starts with your best player, if he can't defend the rest will follow.

    I love Dame, but building around a scoring point guard that can't defend doesn't work. How many volume scoring PG's win championships? Steph is the only one and that's because he's played with 2/3 likely hall of famers his whole career, and he's a decent defender, and his teams have been good defensively, with a ton of great role players. The Blazers have none of that and they wont in the next few years.

    The Blazers will not be contenders in Dame's prime. We aren't getting Giannis or any top ten player for this pick so why bother?

    The only path to a championship is the old fashioned way. Building a team through the draft. Wasting a top 3 pick for nothing will bite us in the ass.
     
  2. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    5,351
    Likes Received:
    4,898
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Writer, Director, Actor
    They need to get two starting level players.

    If they wrangle Bridges and Claxton or Siakam and OG, they'll be pretty competitive with room to get better. Shaedon, Claxton and even Bridges can continue to push their ceilings.

    I think the conversation is a little different with Scoot available.
     
    B-Roy and Tince like this.
  3. inconceivable

    inconceivable Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,039
    Likes Received:
    2,390
    Trophy Points:
    113
    iverson was close. i think dame will be ok with brandon miller if the alternative (trade) does not return good value for us.

    someone mentioned tatum's rookie year was brown's 2nd year, led by kyrie went to ECF, lost to lebron's cavs. .

    dame
    sharpe
    grant
    miller
    upgrade at center, brook lopez (FA)
    ant as 6th man
    thybulle
    solid backup big, jakob poeltl (FA)

    is a rotation i can support
     
    Phatguysrule likes this.
  4. SIeepwalker

    SIeepwalker The lone sane poster

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,453
    Likes Received:
    9,551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Strasbourg, France
    Great initiative to create this thread
     
    THE HCP and RonBrewer like this.
  5. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,380
    Likes Received:
    21,977
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    The only reason to trade the pick is if you're a fucking coward who doesn't believe you can tell which young player is going to become a good NBA player. Otherwise you get a shot at a much better player than anyone will give you for the pick, who may be up to ten years younger and locked up in a bargain contract for years, who will never be identified with another team, so your fans will love him unconditionally. Ask yourself one question: would the Spurs trade a #3 pick? Of course fucking not.

    Your job as GM is not to make any single player happy (that's the job of his obscene contract), or to keep your job in the short term, it's to do what's best for the team LONG TERM. And that's so obviously to use the pick that it doesn't bear discussion.
     
  6. BankTeller

    BankTeller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2021
    Messages:
    2,540
    Likes Received:
    2,381
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree with your premise but using the Spurs isn't a fair comparison.

    The Spurs have ZERO franchise players, whereas the Blazers have Dame who could possibly win something with immediate help. The Spurs trading #3 for anyone would not drastically change their future or present, but it could change our present. I've always been on the "don't trade the pick" train as well, I just felt the need to reply to this due to the overly aggressive tone lol.
     
  7. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37,380
    Likes Received:
    21,977
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Have you heard of "hopium"? Because this is the lie that people keep telling themselves. Unless the "something" is maybe one playoff game, or the "immediate help" is the players on the team we trade him to, this just ain't happening. Besides, if we were really going for it, do you think we'd stick with Chauncey as our coach?

    Cronin's got to know this, so if he does actually trade the pick, it's not because he believes it will do us any good, it's because he believes it will stop him getting fired for maybe a year or two.
     
  8. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    22,361
    Likes Received:
    34,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Investment Management / Financial Planner
    Location:
    Lake Oswego
    I was going to create this same thread. Not only do I believe they should not trade the pick, young players (Ant) and likely future picks for a player/players that most likely don't get them to contender status, it would also crush this teams cap space and make an ACTUAL rebuild even harder.

    Say they get the oft mention Siakam or Brown. One year from now, they will be due a massive raise. We would add $40,000,000+ per year on top of Dame's $48,000,000 per year for, in Siakam's case, 2 players that would be 30 and 34. And I don't believe it would suddenly vault us into legit contender status.

    The Blazers are not a player away. They are 137-173 over the last 4 seasons. Maybe throw in a few more wins if they aren't purposely tanking at the end of a couple of those seasons, but they were tanking because they were not good. We aren't going to be able to surround Dame with the type of talent he had when LA, Batum, Wes and Lopez were here because Dame was on a Rookie scale contract at that time. It's unfortunate it worked out this way, but sometimes the timing just isn't good. Dame is now wanting to play with players that will help him win. He should have demanded this back in 2018 after they were swept by the #6 seed Pelicans. It is now too late.

    Do NOT mortgage the future of this franchise!! I'm a huge Dame fan, but a Blazer fan first. I don't believe it is in the best interest of the team to try to build around a player who will be 33 next season given the team we already have here and the assets available. I know, Dame has been loyal, but for that loyalty, he has received $451, 772,802 in NBA salary and last year alone, and additional $16,.,000,000 in endorsements. It's not like he has stayed in in a situation that was not exceedingly lucrative for him. And good for him, get what you can get while you can.

    But that doesn't mean hurting the long-term future of the team by chasing something that is extremely unlikely to happen. Clippers brought in Kawhi and PG-13....it did get them to one WCF, but oddly enough, without Leonard and they have never been the contender many thought they would be. Brooklyn brought in KD, Simmons and Kyrie....that didn't go well at all. Phoenix brought in KD to add to Booker, but in doing so, gutted the team of young wings and future Draft picks....and they flamed out and it got their coach fired. Even the Lakers, bringing in AD to join LeBron. If not for the Bubble where both players had months off to then play a very short schedule and get through the Playoffs, I don't believe there is any way they win that if they have to play the whole season.

    Dame's legacy may be that the best thing he did for the Blazers to help them rebuild, is by the assets he can bring to the team. If he really wants to be here and win a championship, get assets here, let them build and grow, then come back at 37 and join a team that has young talent that has matured and is all in their mid-20s. He could come in and be Yoda to their Luke. That might be the best way to get him a rink in Portland....and in would be a storybook finish.
     
  9. RonBrewer

    RonBrewer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If only you experts could see behind the door and see what offers we are receiving. How many times can you say the same shit over and over again?

    If they think they can get some pieces that will put us in the upper 8 teams, then i'm all in.

    Dame has gotten everything he deserves and hopefully continues to.
     
    Phatguysrule likes this.
  10. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Marin
    Capped out, Portland has no realistic way of offering a competitive contract to Lopez or Poeltl.

    STOMP
     
  11. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    21,007
    Likes Received:
    13,564
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree there is a difference. My guess is that Scoot has the potential to be great and Miller has the potential to be good.
    Which is why I think it is a different discussion on whether or not to trade the pick. (and a different discussion on the return)
     
    UKRAINEFAN, TBpup and AmirIcon like this.
  12. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    31,952
    Likes Received:
    40,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The descriptions of Miller all basically seem to come to "high floor, low ceiling".
     
  13. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    90,156
    Likes Received:
    52,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Sounds like Keegan Murray.
     
  14. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,710
    Likes Received:
    32,570
    Trophy Points:
    113
    well, if that's the case and Scoot has the issues of shooting, defense, and ball control some analysts see, then maybe this is a one person draft after all

    ....meaning that Blazers considering trading the pick isn't as bad a bet as many are claiming
     
  15. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    6,346
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Imagine three years from now, and Scoot & Miller are just a decent NBA players. You put the franchise back even further , and the Blazers are decades from being relevant again. Way to go . A rebuild can take 10 years or longer, especially in the One & Done Era. But you were too impatient , and now you reap what you sow.
     
  16. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    5,351
    Likes Received:
    4,898
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Writer, Director, Actor
    Scoot has Marcus Smart potential on defense. What are we talking about here? He's going to be a star.

    Miller is a Danny Granger/Michael Porter Jr. type player. Good, but not a franchise changer.
     
  17. RonBrewer

    RonBrewer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Miller is a stud and will absolutely be a franchise player
     
  18. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    22,361
    Likes Received:
    34,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Investment Management / Financial Planner
    Location:
    Lake Oswego
    We have been 'rebuilding' for 10 years already.
     
    Natebishop3 likes this.
  19. Bingo Bango

    Bingo Bango Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2021
    Messages:
    862
    Likes Received:
    704
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Great post. I agree 100%. Unless Cronin pulls off a miraculous trade (and nothing I’ve seen suggests he is capable of that), Portland is not an elite NBA team, and will not make it to the finals. There are simply too many holes to fill in one off-season. We had a nice run with Lillard but it’s time to exchange him for some great young assets while he still has trade value—and keep our #3 pick!
     
    Trailblazers76 likes this.
  20. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,710
    Likes Received:
    32,570
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ok then....I can mark you down as a Scoot fan

    you guys may be right about Scoot. I'm not buying the hype at this point, but maybe I'm wrong not to

    I just remember all the guards who were going to be NBA stars according to pre-draft hype of course. Over the last 10 drafts:

    Victor Oladipo
    Dante Exum
    D'Angelo Russell
    Kris Dunn
    Markelle Fultz
    Coby White
    Cade Cunnigham
    Jalen Green
    Jalen Suggs

    there have been 2 or 3 triples and doubles, but also a lot of fouls and strikes
     
    CJ_is_Gone likes this.

Share This Page