I'm just baffled by the disconnect here that has people thinking "felt" = "was." Dame felt disrespected. But was he disrespected? Based on what's out there right now, I can't see how any informed, impartial person could say he was. Dame felt lied to. But was he lied to? Based on what's out there right now, I can't see how any informed, impartial person could say he was. Dame's allowed to feel however he wants and he's perfectly within his rights to ask for a trade. He doesn't even need to feel disrespected or lied to do that. Which makes his side's approach to this all the more strange.
The Blazers handled it all wrong, it's on them and it will be on both to find middle ground. Joe changed course after probably;y assuring Dame we will be in a position to deal picks and some the last two years and never shared his change in vision with Dame once he saw he could get Scoot. I say, thats the thing very thing that got Dame pissed. Say one thing and do another and now is giving it back to him. I do also think Bert and Jody got involved with the change of course also.
There was never any vision. After Cronin couldn't/didn't trade #7 and (more) after Blazers couldn't make their "big splash" again and again, it was obvious Dame has to go. Even if it wasn't Scoot. His team was bad to the core. Nobody would play defense and even fans here were dising Hart for not shooting enough 3s. No defense, no rebounds, no toughness. I am so happy this rotten culture is gone.
How did the Blazers handle it all wrong? This is just another one of these posts where you go through the list of everything Dame got out of the relationship and the response is "The Blazers were the ones in the wrong. Trust me. I don't have reasons. But trust me." You're even saying what you think Joe "probably" did. We've got nothing to support that. Not even from Dame's side.
the position I stated?...or the position I stated that you twisted and distorted into a straw man position that allowed you to get back on your soapbox? I'll try to simplify: I think Dame is obviously pissed off at the Blazers; he believes he's justified in the actions he's taking. How much legitimate justification he has is unknown to us because we don't know what Cronin has said to him in the last 18 months; or what Olshey said before Cronin; or what Jody & the Vulcans have said however much justification Dame has, it's not enough to justify to reasonable people the Miami-or-Bust position he's staked out because that damages the Blazers and complicates their ability to complete the trade. And it sure the fuck doesn't justify his agents actions in trying to box Portland into a shitty trade. That's bad faith in my view; that's Dame going scorched earth and trying to exact some retribution....because he's pissed off and feeling betrayed. It's not right and it's not smart but it's often base human nature to land on 'fuck-you' in a divorce and stick with 'fuck-you' for a while until you want to get past the divorce Dame's position is too extreme and too uncompromising. His equation appears to be invested in too much emotion and too little reason. People can believe what they want. What I believe is that he didn't arrive at where he is because the first 11 years of his career in Portland was a lie; that all the things he said were lies. I think his positions just weren't tested by adversity or time; but if lies were the foundation of this current situation, not all the lies were told by Dame
Bla bla bla....so you dont think Joe said hey Dame we want you to retire here and we must build around Dame? Where did I say trust me....and Ive been giving my reason for my thinking so dont come at me with that shit. Ive not challenged you or your post with arrogance and bs, I just responded with how I see it started. Joe totally oversold sold & mid led Dame, is justly opinion dont be an ass.
I heard several times where Joe was stating we want to build around Dame & We want Dame to retire here. You didn't hear any of that?
I think most if not all of that is absolutely fair and reasonable. Also, if I misinterpreted your post that I quoted, my apologies. I disagree that I twisted and distorted anything you said, but there's definitely room for either of us to read the other wrong. If I did that to you, it was not intentional.
Sure I heard that. I haven't seen anything that makes it clear to me that he wasn't being honest in that, nor do I see anything he did at cross purposes with that. He did what he thought was in the best interest of the franchise. Dame decided that wasn't in his best interests. That's perfectly acceptable, but it's also not equivalent to the Blazers handling things wrong. However, it's Dame deciding that he didn't want to be here and win that way even if it was the best avenue to win at all. Now, my presumption here, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're saying drafting after saying we wanted building around Dame and wanting Dame to retire here was wrong. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. If you are saying the Blazers handled it wrong by giving Dame so much say in the direction of the franchise up to this draft, I could agree with that. If you are saying the Blazers handled it wrong by making poor acquisitions in the last several years, I'd totally agree with you there. There definitely things the Blazers did wrong, but I don't see where the Cronin quote you're referencing is one of them unless you assume a number of things that either we don't know or wouldn't make sense.
Is the intention still to build the roster around Lillard and build toward contending for a championship on his timeline? Joe Cronin: It is.There’s nothing we want more than, number one, for Dame to retire a Trail Blazer, and two, put a winner around him a high-end winner. I think that’s what gets misconstrued about Dame sometimes, like for us, it’s an incredible problem to have. We have the best player in Trail Blazers history, that wants to be here and wants to have a winner put around him, and that’s our challenge. That’s where we’ve got to keep doing our thing and find ways to make this team as competitive as possible, as quickly as possible. You have mentioned you want a more veteran-laden team and you had various assets.You’ve expended a large portion of those assets. If you’re going to build around Damian Lillard, how can you do that at his point without a first round pick or your second round pick with only so many salaries left? Joe Cronin: I think there's still a lot of movement to be had. We’ve got to obviously do a good job in free agency and in the trade market, especially in this activity window the next two, three weeks. We’ve planted a lot of seeds on some deals, a lot of these deals we talked about outside of three, they weren’t necessarily draft related. So sometimes these deals will carry through to... could be tomorrow, could be next week, could be going into free agency or outside of the moratorium. We’ve added some young players, the goal now is to add some veteran players that can continue to ramp up this team.
I think Joe meant what he said and then changed his mind and I do feel he oversold it and then something significant pissed Dame off and I believe out had to do with saying one thing and doin g another. Just my take
Yeah these quotes don’t really matter because Dame met with him after he said those things, clearly gave him an ultimatum, and when Joe realized that he couldn’t deliver within Dames short timeline he hit the breaks on everything. There were reports that he tried to trade for OG on the night of free agency opening. Dame gave him the trade request either that night or the next morning. After the trade request there was no reason to really keep pursuing the “win now” timeline.
Like I said in my previous response to the other post where you quoted me, I don't see where Cronin saying that in any way erases the possibility of Dame retiring with the Blazers or the team not being built around him. I think it's a stretch to suggest that, although a few board members are making that leap. The not challenging me with arrogance and BS kind of is hollow when you tell me not to come at you with ... I'll use the word garbage because I try to avoid profanity. I mean, you understand what could be more arrogant than telling another board member what they can and cannot post to you, because it's acting like you have some kind of authority. Starting a post with "bla bla bla" ... kind of the same thing. You didn't say to trust you. I'd expected you to be intelligent enough to understand a metaphor, though. You gave a take that was pure opinion with no evidence. You're doing it again here with saying Cronin oversold, Cronin misled, but there are no examples of that beyond you can't connect in your mind how putting the best team around Dame with the hand Cronin was dealt could be done without it being done in the way Dame preferred. Cronin tried to make deals, according to Sly's source ... IIRC, the words used were "needle-movers" and also that Dame "felt" lied to. That's on Dame and his perception, though. Objectively, it's another matter.
OK, I think you realize now that you're posting your opinions, which can be influenced by what you want. I'm saying there isn't evidence to support that. Someone actually could come here and say "I think Dame wanted to force his way out of Portland but he wanted the Blazers to look like it was their decision and not his preference." I think as good or better argument could be made for that opinion than that Cronin deliberated misled Dame. I think the more plausible explanation is this: Cronin wanted to placate Dame (I think everything we've seen up to this point supports that idea). From Sly's source, big deals were pursued, but the other teams didn't agree -- there's no reason to disbelieve this since both sides and anonymous sources are saying the same thing. At that point, Cronin did the next best thing: Instead of giving up valuable resources for meh additions like his predecessor did, he chose to try to put the best talent on the floor with Dame, even if it would take a couple of years to mature. For whatever reason (he didn't want to wait, he felt he gave an ultimatum that was ignored, he felt slighted because Scoot plays PG, etc.), Dame and/or his representation decided he wanted out. To me, this is likely and fits both the examples of how both the Blazers and Dame handled themselves up to the draft and subsequently and actually would seem like something a lot of average people would do in similar positions.
That's a great point. People are getting stuck on this or that was being said like it was planting a flag and ground you had to hold even if you died standing there. But these things are fluid. Cronin might have been optimistic that he could get something done that served both Dame's individual preferences and the Blazers' needs going in, but if he says "we'll give you 23, Ant and a future first for OG" or "how about 3 and 3 future firsts for Zion" and that gets turned down, that changes the whole landscape. You have to think what players might have been on the market that fit the Blazers' needs, Dame's wants and were attainable. A lot of forum members were asking and trying to answer that question since the end of the season, and there really weren't a lot of satisfying answers.
Well I think the point that gets lost with a lot of people, or minimized, is that Dame just wanted some veterans. I don’t think thats at all what Dame wanted. He specifically talked about adding pieces to compete. I don’t think he wanted us to pull a Neil and go get another Robert Covington or Norm or Larry Nance. He wanted another star caliber player. He wanted a Siakam or a Jaylen Brown or a Mikal Bridges. If we couldn’t get those three guys, who were we supposed to go get? If we had sent Scoot and Simons for OG that would have been an absurd overpay. Joe talked about being willing to lose a trade to keep Dame but he didn’t say he would take a massive loss. It’s like being willing to go a little over asking to get a car that you really want. It’s not like you’re offering double the ask. That would be stupid. Taking out a second mortgage so that you can pay double the value on a classic car. Not smart at all. but it’s like some fans are still saying, “just get it done!” They don’t have any rumored deals or any actual evidence. Just get it done. It’s silly.
