And what were they ranked before the changes we're discussing? You see, since we're discussing a change that happened once the population was tired of their underperforming Police department, showing the before and after is how you would determine if the changes were effective. The discussion at hand is about police ceasing to be a part of the problem. Since the change in policing in Camden resulted in such drastic improvements the police were very obviously a part of the problem. Camden isn't a high income area. Therefore, they will likely not pay a lot in tax revenue. Low income areas still need services as well, and police are a service. They are not (and should not be) a profit center for any region. They are an expense that pay for themselves by maintaining safe and secure travel and trade. The way to further lower crime rates is to improve access to education, healthcare, and improve the social safety net. Thus breaking the cycle of poverty and the poor decisions that poverty leads to. But as long as we continue to treat the poor with disdain, poor areas will have high crime rates. Regardless of the number of police.
But it's not really de-unionizing. Suppose you were a freshwater underwater basket weaver and your union is the Teamsters. You work for them for 10 years and the company decides to close. You hear the saltwater underwater basket weavers are hiring but their union is AFL-CIO. Switching employers that have different unions is not de-unionizing. In my humble opinion.
Tell that to the union members who were not rehired. And I'm pretty sure that the ones who were rehired were no longer members of the same union.
Camden has to bum money from the state to continue to excessively hire more cops because no businesses want to go there, and I don't blame them. After 13 years I would think that if things had improved that much, business would start opening there. But the fact is that even after 13 years, Camden is still ranked the 14th most dangerous place to be...not impressive.
While initially they were not unionized, in 2013 they voted to unionize and selected the New Jersey Fraternal Order Of Police Union (NJFOP). All of the Camden County officers are covered by a police union and have been for a decade.
Unions of all kinds need to be more receptive to working with gov on improving performance with quantifiable results. My wife's biggest issue over the years with her union was there were those with tenure that were laggards in term of performance as compared to some with less tenure that were outstanding with objective results but no way to be incentivized. Unions certainly can protect worker rights but sometimes they get in the way of improving job performance measured criteria. Just my own take.
One cherry pick deserves another; https://publicaffairs.northeastern.edu/articles/us-crime-rate-during-pandemic/ https://apnews.com/article/chicago-...rus-outbreak-bbb7adc88d3fa067c5c1b5c72a1a8aa6 https://www.aclu.org/news/smart-justice/decarceration-and-crime-during-covid-19
This is not something that can be solved by policing. Camden is the poorest city in the state, and has a poverty rate of 35.5% Why would businesses go to such a poor area? Poor people don't have a lot of money to spend...
But didn't they contend they would eventually re-unionize. Seems they were un unionized for some time as they got on a better track?
As was pointed out earlier after rehiring their police force they were among the most policed areas in the country in relation to their population, and some crimes did drop...for awhile. And that drop was likely due to more cops, not necessarily better cops. Even if they were once worst, in 2023 ranking the 14th most dangerous place to be in the US is nothing to brag about. Maybe if Camden is continued to be subsidized by the state, they might end up having 4 times the police they had in 2010...yeah, more cops...brilliant !
https://www.camdencounty.com/ccpd-b...end of last,the Camden City Police Department. Forgive me if this was already posted: Are they bad? Yes. Are they significantly better? Also yes.
...Still trying to put Camden in a positive light ?........a city using state money instead of their own to hire even more cops...if they keep this up, there will be more cops than citizens. ...even when compared to 2012, Camden is still a shit hole. ..."hey, now we're (Camden) only the 14th most dangerous place to be in the US !" Still waiting for examples of the plethora of other cities lining up to attempt what Camden attempted to do...10-12 years after the fact.
Taking some time reading through those links... they say most crime went up over covid as well... except the first few months... a few types of crime were flat or dipped for a couple months with the lockdowns, but that's it. The overall trend was crime going up, all over the US.
I'm not finding any legit data that have Camden ranked as anywhere close to the most dangerous... Most Dangerous Cities in the US - www.populationu.com Camden not even in the top 75 List of United States cities by crime rate - Wikipedia Camden not listed here in these 100... I don't believe it... I gotta see this for myself... I'm dubious...
"Legit data"?...lol...some folks can't find stuff because they don't really try. Camden, Trenton and Paterson make top 100 list of most dangerous cities https://bronx.news12.com/camden-trenton-and-paterson-make-top-100-list-of-most-dangerous-cities# https://nj1015.com/3-cities-in-nj-among-the-most-dangerous-in-the-u-s/ But I wouldn't be surprised that someone who cited wiki as legit, will claim this isn't legit data.
Only stats and numbers I post are legit. Anything else is not a legit source!!!! I know everything and you know nothing!!!! Sadly…this problem will never get solved….
