The only (slightly) palatable Miami trade is them unlocking the first by dealing with OKC, us getting ALL their FRP's up to 2030, us getting ALL the swaps in between, and getting Jaquez and Jovic while trading Martin AND Herro to other teams for picks or young talent. Period. Anything short of that is a hard no. I would have settled for less before Goodwin's BS, now it's MAX PAIN for Miami or they can pound sand.
Do you think your proposal is realistic? Would you do that if you were Pat Riley? I would at least take Martin out of the equation. They need either Martin or Jaquez as they play the same position and I think the Blazers are better off with the rookie.
I like the maximum pain part of it towards Miami ... though I like Riley and Spo and Bam. They get their pick back. 25, 27, 29 unprotected picks / pick swaps in 26, 28, 30 Jovic, Jaquez, O Robinson Herro elsewhere for youngish front court player with size, skills, D. ... Brooklyn for Clowney + Dinwiddie? Miami gets their trophy with Lillard. In three years he's done. Hopefully, taking their picks and youth has them suck by 2027.
I can live with that, especially if you were able to flip Martin for something halfway decent. I think you have to get two of Jovic, Martin, and Jaquez. I think that Jaquez has a higher floor than Jovic, but give me Jovic's ceiling instead. Now, if you can flip Martin for even a protected first round pick, he immediately jumps much higher on my list. Jovic, Lowry (who you might even be able to flip at the deadline to a contender for half a season), and five firsts? I take that
I don't think I care what Riley thinks. He's trying to trade us MUCH lower than that, so I don't care what he thinks. He almost certainly is to some degree involved in what has unfolded. I don't really care about Martin one way or the other. I just want the maximum we can extract from them, which still seems woefully short of what we should get and would get minus the tampering. I don't care if it's literal tampering, they tampered with Dame's trade value through absolutely disgusting tactics. We also pay two prices by dealing with Miami, two prices I feel are way under discussed and thought about. One, we look weak and easy to fleece to the rest of the league which means we probably need to let Cronin go or we can expect perpetual low-balling from here on out. Two, and far, FAR more importantly, we set up all the non-destination teams for mono-directional contracts. You're on the hook to pay the players and cap space, but the players can just do dirty dealing to go where they want after mining you for salary. That second one has absolutely horrific consequences that I think far too many in an interest to "put this behind us" aren't taking into consideration or weighing heavily enough. It's called selling out the long term in favor of short term gains. If I were Cronin I'd wait until mid-season at least to trade Dame. Lots more teams will be interested then and it's actually worth it in the long run to take a similar or even SLIGHTLY (I wanted to ultra emphasize that word before the predictable responses) less than Miami offers just to drive a stake through that vampire's heart.
Some of you on here have really let this process dragging on break you down. If Miami wants Dame and they do, they should have to free up the 2024 FRP to trade to us, give up their FRPs in '28 and '30 all unprotected, either us or them finds a home for Herro that yields us real value in the form of an unrestricted first and expirings or young front court players, both Jovic and Jaquez and they should take Nurk and we should get Lowry's expiring contract... no fucking way should we take on Duncan Robinson. As far as if I would do the deal if I was Pat Riley... hell yeah I would. That has to be a joke right? Tyler Herro is on the same level as Ant IMO, Jaquez is a prospect along the lines of Kris Murray, Jovic has a low floor and some up side but hasn't found a place with the Heat yet, three future firsts and an expiring contract for Dame and taking on Nurk who would actually be really great playing with or behind Bam especially against bigger lineups. Dame is as elite of an offensive player as there is in this league. Put him with guys like Bam, Jimmy, Caleb Martin, Love, Richardson and these guys haven't even used their TPMLE yet. That's not a Cinderella playoff story, it's a legit contender. They probably win a ring in the next three seasons and give up far less than the Bucks had to for Jrue.
It seems you forgot that Lillard publicly stated that he has no interest in mentoring or whatever another 19 y/o rookie. Scoot gets none of that if Lillard returns. Hence, Lillard should not be around him at all in my estimation.
No, I didn't forget. He was speaking about remaining on the team during the rebuild. He wouldn't be. It's hard to see Lillard being anything but a good influence on someone he's already given advice to in previous contacts. Or upon Sharpe or any of the other young players. I would prefer to see a decent trade for Lillard ASAP, but I don't have a particularly negative view of Lillard despite his agent and his behaviors so far in asking out -- not good ... too far. He's also made complimentary comments about J. Allen and Portland ... Lillard and his agent need to zip it with the media and social media until the trade is done. His agent needs to tell Riles to pull his head out or prepare to lose games and alienating Lillard to the point where delaying has Lillard looking elsewhere. I'm on the fence with play Lillard or not if the trade happens during the season. Billups, Lillard, and Nurkic will need to talk.
I don’t understand how Jaquez is a sticking point. He’s not even that good. They have so little in terms of value. To not get Jovic and Jaquez would seem crazy to me.
while I understand all non-Blazer players stink... Jaquez is listed at 6'7" 225lbs ?? He would be a GIANT on this Blazers team. i'll post Jamie highlights if at all interested
I don't think Jaquez is a sticking point for the Heat together with Jokic. Neither is in the top 2 tiers as talent -- not in their draft classes, not likely ever. It doesn't mean either one is "trash" or even destined to become just "okay pros." I like both. Will both be quality starters? Even one of them? I'd have to say neither at this point. But with a great work ethic, their ceilings are certainly not defined by what I think. I'd like them on the Blazers. Where should the argument actually be? Is there one impactful starter coming back to the Blazers for Lillard? Not an all star. Maybe one who could become an all star -- yes, that would be nice. That's not Herro given the Blazers' current, young guards. The only way the current state of affairs makes any sense to me is the obvious -- that Riles is lowballing and hoping that (1) no other team jumps in, and that (2) Portland flinches. If Riles is right, then Cronin seals his own fate well before we know what the picks turn out to be. Knowing that, and foreseeing his legacy, Cronin cannot flinch. If Jaquez and Jovic look significantly better after the season begins, then maybe the trade happens with both to the Blazers. Otherwise, either Herro balls out and brings a better 3rd team return to the Blazers or the Blazers trade Lillard to a different team -- Brooklyn or Toronto. If Miami wants another ring, then Riles has to pay up as much as he can.
Why is there even talk about Jovic and trading with Miami? Coming into the NBA, Jovic was supposed to be a 6' 10" forward who could score but played zero defense. His rookie season he played 15 games and shot 23% on 8 made threes out of 35 attempts. I'd trade Keon Johnson for him. Keon's perfect because he was mr potential when the Blazers got him. Jovic is a taller Mr. Potential. Just don't ask him to defend. Come on people. I know some of you want Lillard to be gone just to be gone, but this is ridiculous
What would any of you people trade for Jaime Jaquez? Again, I would trade Keon Johnson. That might be it.
Exactly. Jaquez and Jovic are marginal players. I am not certain they would play more than spot minutes on our rebuilding team. They certainly don't strike me as A-List young prospects you'd hope to get for one of the top-10 players in the league in his prime.
I think Joe's is waiting to see what Jovic and Jaquez looks like until around the deadline. If they play well, we get both of them, Lowry (salary match / expiring), Herro (equiv to 1 FRP?), 3 FRPs, swaps and 2nds. One of those FRPs will be the lousy 2024 one. Or they say, hey we have good players, we don't need Dame anymore. If Jovic Jaquez play poorly, Joe can tell Miami, well, you have nothing I want, Dame will be forced to open up his list and Joe will have options.
