How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

Yes

 

Yeah, Dame seems to have felt like he was pushing a rebuild given how almost every move he made lined up with a rebuild. Saying that's not for me is more Tynan understandable, it's justified. Why do we think Dame felt a need to specify that?

 

Well, if we forget the Grant move (trade) and the GP2 moves and signing Winslow and the 2nd Grant move (extension), sure, every move was a rebuild move. If we do not ignore reality, it was not.

The Blazers can feel just as much hurt about Dame as well. He had major surgery, there was no guarantee he would come back from abdominal injury immediatly. The Blazers could have just as well told him to prove that he is healthy before discussing an extension or trading him with a much shorter contract - but they were willing to take the long-term option on him and signed him to his big extension. He was not willing to take the long-term option on the rebuild where the Blazers were trying to maximize their assets.

So, what he felt and what happened are not one and the same - and the Blazers have all the reasons in the world not to trust him when he did such an obvious 180 over what he told everyone before.

 

Ah, your command of the English language is truly awe-inspiring. Your choice of words, "more Tynan understandable, it's justified," has us all pondering the depths of linguistic complexity. I couldn't help but notice your subtle reference to the renowned "Totally Yodeling Naked in Antarctica" movement. Truly, a pinnacle of intellectual discourse.

However, if I may be so bold, I'd like to offer a humble request on behalf of some of our fellow forum-goers who may not be as well-versed in your advanced lingo. You see, there are those among us who struggle to grasp the nuances of "Totally Yodeling Naked in Antarctica" or decipher intricate acronyms like "take your nonsense and nonsocial attitude."

So, in the spirit of inclusivity and to ensure that all readers can bask in the brilliance of your words, could you kindly consider simplifying your language just a tad? We wouldn't want anyone to feel left out in this intellectual wonderland you've created. After all, you are the master orator, thanks to your highly successful podcast, and we're just here to catch up.

Your understanding of this matter, as I'm sure you'll agree, is "more Tynan understandable, it's justified."

 

Because he put pressure on him? Why does that work for other stars and GMs? Stars put pressure all the time. Giannis just did.

 

Well, you can't do it and claim loyalty first, unless it is loyalty to himself. There is a good reason the Blazers stopped trusting Dame, he gave them a lot of reasons to do so.

 

Call me an ignoramus, but I think the main reason people have soured on Dame is that his agent (at his behest) acted like a petulant asshole all summer. I'm not aware of any starts that have demanded a trade to one team with $200M in future salary owed, hit the podcast circuit and released shitty emo rap to air their greviences, then try to do a short-term take back. After all this, mind you, release a hit piece after getting traded to a team that immediately becomes a title favorite. If Dame quietly (or loudly) demanded a trade to a contender and his agent didn't throw a summer long tempter tantrum I think almost everyone would be cool with him.

 

I was one of the guys who was BEGGING for Dame to put pressure on Neil for years. Putting pressure is fine.

Coming out and essentially telling the media that if we don't trade the pick, he's out..... that's not pressure. That's an ultimatum.

Honestly, putting everything aside that you and Eric have reported, do you think Dame making that statement hurt the Blazers' trade leverage?

 

Holy shit this conversation is so fucking tired. Dame did what he felt was right for him after this team's front office didn't do what they said they sat out to do many many times between Olshey and Joe. When Dame said don't go young or else and Joe called his bluff I think that put Dame in a bad mindset (obviously compounded by personal stuff). Dame obviously felt betrayed by Joe. Joe obviously wasn't going to give into Dame's demands because they were stupid. Dame got to a good team, better team than the one he wanted but is still pissed at Joe.

I think Dame has every right to be angry at Joe mostly for not getting the job done that Joe had been telling Dame he'd get done for a year and a half, that would have kept Dame where he wanted to be and that's here.

I think Joe made the best moves for the franchise and when weighing out what to do didn't put too much weight in Dame's legacy with the franchise which is shrewd but you kind of want someone who is shrewd making these decisions.

Both guys actions are completely understandable to me. Most important Joe seems to be kicking ass with this trade and it's going to set us up for a very very bright future.

I'll root for Dame to win a title in Milwaukee but above all else GO BLAZERS!!!

 

That's all fair.

The main point of contention is going young. The Blazers got the third pick, which was a twist of fate. Whether you believe the reports that the Blazers actually did try to trade the pick, or if you fall into the group who do not believe that Joe really gave it his all, the mere fact that we got the third pick is what drastically changed things. Joe was presented with an impossible decision.

Trade Scoot for bad value.

or

Piss off Dame.

And with that decision, I'm sure Joe had to sit down and think about the future of the team. Dame is 33. Our team is not good. We're being handed a stud point guard on a silver platter. So if you're presented with an option of either taking bad value on a 19 year old stud point guard who might end up being really special OR taking not great value on a Damian Lillard trade, which one do you choose? I can't imagine that was a fun decision.

 

What Dame did shouldn't work for othe stars. Certainly not within the GM's first year.

Dame cratered the value of Portland's assets at critical junctures.

 

100%

Joe hasn't acted incredulous about Dame's actions, I think he knew he was going to push Dame to a point that infuriated him but if that's what was best for the team, that's what Joe had to do. I just don't get why people are so surprised by Dame's actions. Even the parting shot of the Haynes article. Dame has good reasons to be pissed at Joe but that doesn't mean Joe is at fault.

I think this was a challenging situation, I think for Dame the emotional reactions were compounded by other challenging situations in his life. I don't blame anyone in this situation and I'm excited for our team's future and to see if Dame can get a championship or two in Milwaukee.

 

Somehow Giannis putting the same public pressure on the Bucks front office didn't do that. You have to ask yourself why that is.

 

Joe's mistake was that he either foolishly thought that he could draft Scoot and still build around Dame, OR he was stringing Dame along. Some people believe the first thing is true, the other group believes that the second is true.

Personally, I think Joe is still a rookie GM. I think he makes rookie mistakes. I think he says things that a seasoned GM would not say. I think Dame and Joe have different personality types and they did not mesh. Neil was amazing at spinning bullshit.

 

I agree with the above two statements!

 

I honestly do no believe Joe initially had Scoot on his mind. Everyone was saying Scoot should go two or Charlotte should trade the pick. Joe thought he was building around Dame and at worst the kid Charlotte selected.

 

Giannis and his agent didn't do what Dame and his agent did.

Giannis has given his front office far more time than Dame gave Cronin. It's not even a comparison. Giannis didn't give anything that could be taken as a direct ultimatum like Dame did.

I'm not saying the separation is all Dame's fault. But by pretty much all reports there was nothing else Cronin could have done.

 

I didn't realize that you were talking about the Miami only scorched earth shit (which I'm not cool with) but didn't seem to undercut anything since we got a pretty fucking good deal from another team in the long run.

I thought you were talking about publicly stating that if the team went young he'd want out before the draft. I don't think that undercut value of our assets anymore than Giannis basically saying, "get this already contending team better or I'm out" and before that, "get this playoff team to a contending level or I'm out". Giannis didn't give them more time than Dame did either because Dame had been talking this same talk since before the 2020 Olympics.

Again, I don't blame Joe, if the moves toward youth were the best on the table then it is what it is. I just also don't blame Dame for being furious about it because it's obvious to me that he was very serious about being here his whole career and what he wanted was a team around him who could contend... the fact that he was being paid like every all nba player in the league (supermax money) doesn't factor into what the team did for him, in my opinion.

 

I think Cronin knew Dame was going to have to be moved once Scoot was left on the board.

But he wasn't going to rush it. He was going to publicly say he was still planning on building around Dame in an effort to get Dame to a good situation while maximizing the return to the team.

So he'd be making calls trying to make deals to build around Dame and likely gauging interest in Dame as well.

To me this seemed obvious. And something would have happened. And if Dame were working with Cronin there wouldn't have had to be all of these feelings.

Dame made it as difficult on Cronin as it possibly could be.

 

I agree, Dame was serious about wanting to be here. But Olshey fucked him. Milwaukee had far better assets to meet Giannis's demands than Cronin had to meet Dame's.

These are completely different situations.