I'm not sure 'soft' is the appropriate label for this but for a big man, he sure doesn't get the line as much as his big men peers career FT Rate (this season): Gobert .716 (.654) Embiid .555 (.546) Nick Richards .539 (.445) Jarrett Allen .457 (.371) Adebayo .445 (.470) Mitchell Robinson .443 (.388) Steven Adams .441 (.490) Zubac .400 (.342) Mark Williams .400 (.424) Eubanks .398 (.396) Sabonis .375 (.399) Claxton .398 (.338) Sengun .377 (.348) Moritz Wagner .377 (.390) Nurkic .375 (.364) W. Carter Jr .341 (.312) Capela .338 (.349) Looney .333 (.351) Jaren Jackson .332 (.370) Valunciunas .332 (.315) Ricgaun Holmes .317 (.375) KAT .325 (.312) Jokic .329 (.319) Porzingis .316 (.467) Myles Turner .312 (.366) Poeltl .309 (.319) B. Lopez .297 (.182) Zach Collins .262 (.259) Ayton .208 (.132) Vucevic .142 (.095) big men who draw fouls and get to the line add a lot of value to a team. If it wasn't for Vucevic, Ayton would be by far the worst at it in the league. So, while it might not actually be a "soft" characteristic of Ayton, it's a definite flaw. And for whatever reason, he's much worse at FT rate in Portland than he was in Phoenix. I don't know if it's the system or the players he's on the floor with or attitude or a combination of factors, it's still another reason to look cross-eyed at his game
Wow, I did not realize how flawed Kat, Jokic, and Porzingis are this season. Over 20 centers are better at getting to the line. I can see why Minnesota, Denver, and Boston are struggling.
Yeah, it isn't even my top 5 things I care about from our big man. Now I do care if our center can shoot free throws in order to stay on the floor at the end of games, but I just don't care that much about how good they are at drawing fouls. Not when they have a career FG % of close to 60%
Lmao. After one game? I’m not bashing Ayton, just that guys were so damn hard in Nurk and giving Ayton passes so far is odd. I guess the new shinny thing to do here is bash Billups, and complain about Ant. maybe if one day Billups is fired you guys will turn to Ayton as the new shinny thing to bash.
Man there is games in there he just coasts. yes he does some good things, but I’m just baffled at how many of you were bashing Nurkic over and over and are now praising Ayton when he has many of the same qualities. even last night, either in OT or 4th, someone took a shot, and he was just standing out by the out of bounds under the hoop. The ball danced on the rim for a little bit and Ayton just stood there staring at it instead of getting back into the play and trying to get the offensive rebounds.
At some point, I think all fans on all teams feel the same about their bigs. Scene from Airplane: Joey : Wait a minute. I know you. You're Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. You play basketball for the Los Angeles Lakers. Roger Murdock : I'm sorry, son, but you must have me confused with someone else. My name is Roger Murdock. I'm the co-pilot. Joey : You are Kareem! I've seen you play. My dad's got season tickets. Roger Murdock : I think you should go back to your seat now, Joey. Right, Clarence? Captain Oveur : Nahhhhhh, he's not bothering anyone. Let him stay here. Roger Murdock : But just remember, my name is... [showing his nametag] Roger Murdock : ROGER MURDOCK. I'm an airline pilot. Joey : I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense. [Kareem gets angry] Joey : And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs. Roger Murdock : [breaking character] The hell I don't! LISTEN, KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night! Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!
You seem to be talking about not recklessly going all out every possession rather than hustling in general throughout the game. Last night there were multiple examples of him hustling and making plays or hustling and forcing the other team to adjust which made plays for others. Let's just mention another. There was a play in the second half where Ayton got stuck on VanVleet way outside. FVV kept trying to use his quickness and ability to create space to lose Ayton and couldn't, and it ended up being a 3-second violation on the Rockets. Also, Segun with his unorthodox offensive game was able to score on Ayton pretty well in the second half. Except, late in the game, Ayton adjusted, manned up and stopped Segun when it mattered most. If your benchmark for hustling and being a good player is going after every single play even when you have essentially no mathematical chance of making it and then wearing yourself out when there's a hustle play you can make, you probably could find examples negating any player in NBA history including Prime Jordan from being good. Ayton played more than 40 minutes, had 18-17, was like plus-11 or something and we won on the road in a back-to-back against what might be a playoff team. I can understand disappointment in a player or maybe in their play versus their pay, but some of you guys are trying too hard and it shows. You're holding Ayton to a standard that not even Bill Russell or Wilt could reach.
As I recall, Roger Murdock was a complete non-factor in saving that flight, too. Guy practically slept through the end.
I just love these takes. Ayton isn't as good as Embiid and Jokic which makes him worse than Hassan Whiteside and Joel Przybilla. Talk about bizarre arguments.
I think his response had more to do with you seeming to put a lot of value in that stat, and that the bigger argument going on right now is that at least one poster is using that stat and that stat alone as a dismissal of Ayton's value. He doesn't get to the line as much as we think he could/should. I don't think I've seen even his advocates disputing that. Some people are trying to make the perfect the enemy of the good here, though, to the point that DA actually having a good game makes them angry and coming out even more critical of him that usual.
most C's have career 2ptFG% and eFG% around 60%. I'm not sure that's much of an accomplishment but I think you are being a little too dismissive about the value of a big man's FT rate. You mentioned Jokic's seemingly low rate for a C. Well, Jokic is currently averaging 3.6 more points/game from the FT line than Ayton. That is a substantial margin for one component of one player's contribution to a team score. More than the raw points though, is the value of getting the team into the bonus earlier in a quarter. That's going to generate more FT points than just those scored by the C. And, there's the value of potentially getting the other team's best rim protector in foul trouble and having him on the bench
I'd dispute that. There are nine players in the NBA shooting above that mark right now. A whopping two of them average 10 shots per game. And Giannis is one of those nine, so he's not even a C.
When it comes to offense, I don't really care. I want my center rebounding and anchoring the interior. Ayton does a reasonable job of it.
yeah, I shouldn't have added eFG%. But when it comes to 2ptFG%: Daniel Gafford .692 Jakob Poeltl .685 Moritz Wagner .675 Jarrett Allen .663 Ivica Zubac .655 Kristaps Porziņģis .649 Jalen Duren .641 Brook Lopez .640 Nic Claxton .638 Rudy Gobert .637 Nikola Jokić .635 Domantas Sabonis .629 Chet Holmgren .625 Myles Turner .622 Jonas Valančiūnas .616 Naz Reid .589 Zach Collins .583 Alperen Şengün .577 Anthony Davis .576 Joel Embiid .568 Clint Capela .567 Jusuf Nurkić .555 Nikola Vučević .541 Victor Wembanyama .540 Deandre Ayton .535 now, this is Ayton's worst season so that's probably fairly skewed. His career mark is .599 which would put him right behind Valunciunas when it comes to gauging the impact FT's have on efficiency, then TS% is the go-to gauge. Ayton Career make of .617 compared to C's this season Daniel Gafford .713 Jarrett Allen .688 Jakob Poeltl .675 Moritz Wagner .666 Ivica Zubac .665 Nikola Jokić .660 Kristaps Porziņģis .658 Rudy Gobert .652 Onyeka Okongwu .652 Joel Embiid .651 Jalen Duren .650 Domantas Sabonis .648 Nic Claxton .640 Chet Holmgren .639 Jonas Valančiūnas .639 Myles Turner .628 Dario Šarić .625 Anthony Davis .624 Naz Reid .620 Deandre Ayton .617 (career) I wish bbref hadn't put a lot of searches behind a paywall. Used to be I could have sorted for career TS% for C's
Who knew that Daniel Gafford has been one of the best offensive centers this season? He's also leading the league in Ortg, while on one of the worst teams in the league.
Me too. I mean it would be nice to have Embiid or Jokic to dominate games on offense, but I am ok with a long center (with decent hops) like Ayton who can catch a pass 10-12 feet from the basket when the shot clock is winding down and who actually has a decent chance of making the shot without putting the ball on the floor. Nothing drives me crazy more than a center who turns the ball over. (traveling offensive fouls, forced passes) Especially down the stretch of a tight game. Plus he has a decent jump hook as well.
